The English Teacher's Corner

253 posts in this topic

Just now, food mom said:

"The child", the noun, is neuter. The trouble starts with the pronouns.

 

Give us a full sentence!!!:D (including a pronoun!! ).

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1 hour ago, food mom said:

 

But "they" is a plural. And this is only one singular person.

 

 

 

the use of singular 'they' has been around for centuries.

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@tor: very true, but it is not mainstream. It is not part of regular english grammar teaching (nor are thee and thou, the formal forms of you).

 

@john g.:  here's the broadcast that kicked off the discussion in my class:

 

https://podcasts.google.com/?feed=aHR0cDovL25wci5weXRoZXIubmV0L3BvZGNhc3QvMw&episode=aHR0cHM6Ly9vbmRlbWFuZC5ucHIub3JnL2Fub24ubnByLW1wMy9ucHIvbWUvMjAxOS8xMC8yMDE5MTAxNl9tZV9oZV9zaGVfdGhleV93b3JrcGxhY2VzX2FkanVzdF9hc19nZW5kZXJfaWRlbnRpdHlfbm9ybXNfY2hhbmdlLm1wMw&hl=de&ved=2ahUKEwjQv9vS8qjlAhWrpIsKHfr8AtoQjrkEegQIARAE&ep=6&at=1571507777288

 

Morning Edtion
He, She, They: Workplaces Adjust As Gender Identity Norms Change
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When I was in a romantic relationship, I referred to my dear love as my gentleman friend.  And if anyone wanted an explanation - no one was actually rude enough to demand or even ask one - I'd have said that it should be self-explanatory.
Honestly, some people feel entitled to ask the most impertinent questions.  And what business is it of theirs, really?

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14 minutes ago, katheliz said:

When I was in a romantic relationship, I referred to my dear love as my gentleman friend.  And if anyone wanted an explanation - no one was actually rude enough to demand or even ask one - I'd have said that it should be self-explanatory.
Honestly, some people feel entitled to ask the most impertinent questions.  And what business is it of theirs, really?

Bless you! :rolleyes:

This world of ours...cultural stuff...you know, I remember living in Indonesia and it was normal for me walking down the  street to be asked by perfect strangers (constantly ) : " where are you from ?", followed by: " where are you going? ", ending in: " where´s your wife? ".

Yep!

Pretty similar to our village here on Crete!

:P

Not everyone in the world is an American, Brit, German etc.

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27 minutes ago, tor said:

 

the use of singular 'they' has been around for centuries.

 

indeed - I use it all the time when referring to someone whose gender I am not sure about (eg here on Toytown)

 

"+1" may be a new fad, but solves none of the problems I had with describing my man.  Fad or no, I would never use a term like that myself as I think it's demeaning.  A "+1" can be any random person you know.  A partner deserves more respect.

 

@katheliz - ohhh I love "gentleman friend".  not sure I would have had the ovaries to use it when I was in my 20's-30's but that would definitely be my preferred term now :)

 

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@katheliz;  I agree. I have my own opinion on this gender-id subject, but that's not what I originally asked. I am looking for input on how to handle the grammar teaching.

We all strive for our learners to be more comfortable speaking, and while the subject may/may not be appropriate for each class, it is up to the teacher to decide how to steer the discussions.

 

@john g.:  that was cute.

 Last Thursday I was asked if I can understand "English English".  I was amused, and said yes, but I have to tune my ears a bit.

 When I'm working in the kitchen I often have my computer on for background noise. I like old British sitcoms. What's currently playing is a 90s show called "Moving Story" (Warren Clarke), which has me enhtralled, linguistically. Once before, I was in love with the series "Inspector George Gently" (Martin Shaw), about a London man who moves to the north of England. His partner, a local, often accompanied him on cases even farther north, where the partner had to translate "local" dialect for him.

 

Yes, there are many ways of speaking, but right now, only one CEFR. And that's what we teach. Officially.

 

and as a p.s:. a pet peeve is how today's technology is wrongly infleuencing grammar, as for example how my word "enthralled" was just incorrectly separated.

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Perhaps instead of the confusing they/them, 'herm' could be accepted as an identifier.

 

A moment's reflection has reminded me that people with long memories would probably think 'herm' was an abbreviation for the long-unused 'hermaphrodite', often mispronounced as 'morphidite'.

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2 minutes ago, food mom said:

  I am looking for input on how to handle the grammar teaching.

 

If someone leaves their course book in the classroom, they can pick it up in the office after class.

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5 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

 

"+1" may be a new fad

 

I came back to the U.S. about 3 years ago. I've never heard the "+1." I guess I'm running in the wrong crowds to have heard it. 

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23 minutes ago, food mom said:

@katheliz;  I agree. I have my own opinion on this gender-id subject, but that's not what I originally asked. I am looking for input on how to handle the grammar teaching.

We all strive for our learners to be more comfortable speaking, and while the subject may/may not be appropriate for each class, it is up to the teacher to decide how to steer the discussions.

 

@john g.:  that was cute.

 Last Thursday I was asked if I can understand "English English".  I was amused, and said yes, but I have to tune my ears a bit.

 When I'm working in the kitchen I often have my computer on for background noise. I like old British sitcoms. What's currently playing is a 90s show called "Moving Story" (Warren Clarke), which has me enhtralled, linguistically. Once before, I was in love with the series "Inspector George Gently" (Martin Shaw), about a London man who moves to the north of England. His partner, a local, often accompanied him on cases even farther north, where the partner had to translate "local" dialect for him.

 

Yes, there are many ways of speaking, but right now, only one CEFR. And that's what we teach. Officially.

 

and as a p.s:. a pet peeve is how today's technology is wrongly infleuencing grammar, as for example how my word "enthralled" was just incorrectly separated.

I don´t know what CEFR is. A school with their own rules or a chain with their own rules?

If you can teach freely, you can always say: " this is what I say. In place A B C, they say it like this..etc ". Or " my parents said this and that but my kids these days say this or that. And Australians have other rules etc. "

 

https://www.coe.int/en/web/common-european-framework-reference-languages/level-descriptions

 

Ah..so that´s what it is!

Edit: back in my time in Indonesia at an international school where English was taught to well-to-do

offspring--there were teachers with PhDs from the USA and all the rest of it but they were arrogant and unwilling to be flexible in case another teacher was ill, It interfered with their tennis practice.

We actually needed emergency cover and " grabbed " a young Australian backpacker in shorts as a filler. The youngsters loved him because he was friendly, open and laughed. A returning-to-work Dr so and so was NOT wanted back by the students. The Australian guy had no idea of grammar but retained the bums on seats.

 

The Australian owner of the school at some stage introduced rules for new teachers:

No married couples - inflexible. No Northern English--too bolshie

:rolleyes:

 

PS: I had to learn quickly what TOEFL was because most of the young Indonesian students aimed to study in the States.

Yep, and then came the exam day. I sat there and the phone call came in. " I am the father of so and so. If my son fails the exam, I know the Ministry which granted you the work permit...just so you know. "

I knew.

 

Basically, in a corrupt world, it´s not what you know but who etc. And the power to ruin another person´s life...

 

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1 minute ago, JN53 said:

 

I came back to the U.S. about 3 years ago. I've never heard the "+1." I guess I'm running in the wrong crowds to have heard it. 

I reckon you´re in the RIGHT crowds!!!

:P:P

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For example:  for you British passport holders living in Germany, when offered a German passport, you have to reach a fluency level of B1. This is the entity that invented the A-B-C levels.

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These people would be unhappy and laughed at throughout the non-English speaking world, Tor. First they came for the pronouns, then the gender-fluid pronouns, then the non-gender-pronouns.

Then the people rose up and said " my baby is hungry and needs food. Is my baby gender-fluid? "

Food, roof over the head, school and a chance.

Poverty before ideology.

Academic snobbery ( guilty here often ) loses before real lives.

 

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I've seen +1 quite a bit in America.

For your . . . significant other. Which I was also aware of.

And in modern internet SO.

However, I was referred to as DH for a bit before I figured that one out.

And I haven't put in the time to see what the reverse is. Though I assume DW would work.

 

The singular They/Them have been around for centuries indeed. Though there's also modern initiatives.

Image result for gender pronouns xe

 

 
 
Pronoun cards 2016-02
Non-English it's different though. In Germanic and Latin languages there's no old words for this (or at least not something that stuck), but people are working on new ones.
Then there's cultures where there have been more than 2 genders since forever and I assume they have pronouns to go with it. Which then wouldn't be gender neutral so much as 3rd sex/gender pronouns, I guess.
 
 
I have a friend who uses they now, but I knew them as her for years.
 I fuck that up on occasion.
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