Werden wurde worden war

[rodisi 657]

I pick up Hammer's German Grammar book, every now and then, in the hope that some things will become clearer.  I think every time, things actually become more muddied - too many high fallutin' grammatical terms. This time, I was trying to learn the proper usage of wurde and got bogged down with the following.  Can somebody please explain the difference between these sentences?

 

Das Haus ist 1845 gebaut worden.

Das Haus wurde 1845 gebaut.

and what I would say

Das Haus war in 1845 gebaut.

 

And to add to the confusion, I thought werde means 'will' used in the future tenses.

[bariboy 46]

• ist 1845 gebaut worden = has been built in 1845 
• wurde 1845 gebaut = was built in 1845

The 1st verb form is called Perfekt and it looks like English present perfect. The second tense is Präteritum and it's like simple past in English. Although my translation of the 1st phrase would be grammatically wrong in English, it is not in German and it would actually be more common than the second variant - particularly in spoken language, where Präteritum/simple past isn't used very often.

 

What you would say ie war ... gebaut is incorrect in German. Unlike English, passive forms are created with a different verb (werden) in German whereas you keep using sein (to be).

 

And yes, werde/wurde/worden are all different forms of the same verb (werden). Werde is present and it's used as an auxiliary verb for the future tense like you said. Wurde is simple past, worden is past participle. The latter two are used to build the passive.

 

Source: I'm a linguist and hold a C1 certificate in German. (and that's where someone tells me I got it all wrong haha)

[cormar 85]

• ist 1845 gebaut worden = has been built in 1845 
• wurde 1845 gebaut = was built in 1845

The 1st verb form is called Perfekt and it looks like English present perfect. The second tense is Präteritum and it's like simple past in English. Although my translation of the 1st phrase would be grammatically wrong in English, it is not in German and it would actually be more common than the second variant - particularly in spoken language, where Präteritum/simple past isn't used very often.

 

What you would say ie war ... gebaut is incorrect in German. Unlike English, passive forms are created with a different verb (werden) in German whereas you keep using sein (to be).

 

And yes, werde/wurde/worden are all different forms of the same verb (werden). Werde is present and it's used as an auxiliary verb for the future tense like you said. Wurde is simple past, worden is past participle. The latter two are used to build the passive.

 

Source: I'm a linguist and hold a C1 certificate in German. (and that's where someone tells me I got it all wrong haha)

"das Haus war in 1845 gebaut" isn't wrong grammatically but probably does not mean what the OP intends: it's Zustandspassiv (stative) - The house was built (as in, it existed). This also exists in English but one has to often figure out from context whether the meaning is stative or not (unless there's an appropriate adjective like opened-open): "He entered the room and found that the window was broken (war+Partizip 2)" vs "The window was broken by the stone (wurde + Partizip II / ist + Partizip II + worden)"

 

 

 

[onemark 787]

I'm afraid your sentence "das Haus war in 1845 gebaut" is not grammatically correct. It should read: "Das Haus wurde 1845 gebaut." If you wish to indicate that it was already standing in 1845, you would probably need to say something like "Das Haus stand schon 1845".

While grammatically correct, I doubt whether the construction "Das Haus ist 1845 gebaut worden." would apply in terms of style, i.e. because it was built so long ago.

 

Also, the imperfect ("Präteritum") does seem to be used more commonly in northern Germany than here in the south.

[SGnew 0]

On 7/13/2015, 7:30:22, bariboy said:

• ist 1845 gebaut worden = has been built in 1845 
• wurde 1845 gebaut = was built in 1845

The 1st verb form is called Perfekt and it looks like English present perfect. The second tense is Präteritum and it's like simple past in English. Although my translation of the 1st phrase would be grammatically wrong in English, it is not in German and it would actually be more common than the second variant - particularly in spoken language, where Präteritum/simple past isn't used very often.

 

What you would say ie war ... gebaut is incorrect in German. Unlike English, passive forms are created with a different verb (werden) in German whereas you keep using sein (to be).

 

And yes, werde/wurde/worden are all different forms of the same verb (werden). Werde is present and it's used as an auxiliary verb for the future tense like you said. Wurde is simple past, worden is past participle. The latter two are used to build the passive.

 

Source: I'm a linguist and hold a C1 certificate in German. (and that's where someone tells me I got it all wrong haha)

 

[SGnew 0]

Do you teach or offer tutoring in German? If not , would you make a recommendation?

[bariboy 46]

I strongly suggest you turn to a native speaker. I would only teach you my mistakes :)

[gaberlunzi 814]

On 12/21/2017, 1:48:30, SGnew said:

On 7/13/2015, 6:30:22, bariboy said:

Wurde is simple past, worden is past participle. The latter two are used to build the passive.

 

Source: I'm a linguist and hold a C1 certificate in German. (and that's where someone tells me I got it all wrong haha)

 

I'm not a linguist, but I would say 'worden' I never used. use a prefix 'ge-worden'  (like: was ist aus uns geworden)und people will know what you said - maybe.

[gaberlunzi 814]

On 7/13/2015, 5:44:48, rodisi said:

And to add to the confusion, I thought werde means 'will' used in the future tenses

English ist just as confusing: will do, shall do, want to do, have to do. Actually not, if you made up your mind what to do or are a politic person. (they can do and say whatever.)

[Joanie 1,127]

my german teacher says if you ever see the word "worden" in a sentence, it's passive.  It's only used for passive, ever.  

 

The best explanation for it can be found in reddit, so i will quote it here:

Quote

 

"worden" is the past participle of "werden" - but only when it's used as an auxiliary verb.

Remember, "werden" as an auxiliary is used to build the subjunctive and the passive voice in perfect (and the Futur tense, but you don't need the participle for that). 

Er hat mein Auto repariert. (active) -> Mein Auto ist von ihm repariert worden. (passive)

When "werden" is used on its own, meaning to get, or to become, then the past participle is geworden

Es wurde dunkel. (active Präteritum) -> Es ist dunkel geworden. (active Perfekt)

 

Quote

"Worden" is the past participle in a passive sentence of "werden". In passive voice, one uses "werden" . "Mein Haus wird verkauft" means "My house is being sold." 

However, in Perfekt, that becomes, "Mein Haus ist verkauft worden" meaning "My house has been sold". In past perfect, it's "Mein Haus war verkauft worden" ("My house had been sold").

 

As such, its use is so specific and limited that we rarely see it, and more rarely use it outside of written german. 

[rodisi 657]

@Joanie I think at this moment I'm understanding the above.  I hope this leaky brain will retain the knowledge.