Germanwings Flight 9525 crashes in French Alps

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Press conference with Germanwings and Lufthansa reps at 2:30 p.m.

 

This is just heartbreaking.

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On a side note: This will impact the current Lufthansa pilot strikes.

 

I'm unsure just how - shouldn't they ask for better medical evaluation and screenings instead of arguing about when and how to retire from active duty? Or maybe terminate all strike action for the time being?

 

EDIT: To date, Cockpit, the pilot union behind the Lufthansa strikes has only posted a press release on the crash itself. There is no mention of any change of their strike plans and /or demands.

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So now all glider pilots will come under suspicion...

 

Also begs the question why the fucker didn't just crash his glider?

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shouldn't they ask for better medical evaluation and screenings

I am sure this will come up time and time again in the coming days and weeks, but at the end of the day even trained professionals can't always spot if someone is suicidal. I would think there is some boundary where all of the screening turns into a source of stress in and of itself. I have no idea where this boundary lies, and I have no idea if the aviation industry is anywhere close to it.

 

As hard as it is, we (as in humanity) need to accept that we cannot control everything and that terrible things will occur no many how many preventive layers we put in place. This is shaping up to be one of those horrendous, yet unpreventable events. I am sure the co-pilot's friends, family, and co-workers asking themselves if they could have seen this coming and prevented it, and the answer may very well be no. My heart truly goes out to them.

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This is shaping up to be one of those horrendous, yet unpreventable events.

It is preventable by insuring that the purser must be in the cockpit when either the Pilot or co-pilot leave the cockpit for any reason. In other words, a "Two man" rule.

I suspect this may very well be the case in the not too distant future. Of course, that could also be got around by collusion between a purser and a pilot/co-pilot.

 

*Edit* The Airline Norwegian has now introduced a cockpit two man rule with immediate effect.

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US federal regulators require a second member of the flight crew to be in the cockpit. Unlike the US, no flight attendant is required to be in the cockpit.

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The prosecutor mentions that the co-pilot was breathing until the crash.

 

Stuff is already getting lost in translation. He actually said the co-pilot was breathing normally until the crash which would rule out stuff like heart attacks or fits. But I am surprised that they are conjecturing suicide and voluntary action at this stage. Could he have passed out? Would his breathing have changed in that state? Why wasn't his breathing quicker if he was conscious? Was he so cool he never uttered a squeak as he saw the ground approaching?

 

Does one have to have the finger on the button continuously while in descent?

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Does one have to have the finger on the button continuously while in descent?

 

No - you dial the desired rate of descent into the autopilot panel.

Contrary to what many people believe, the autopilot is an entire panel that spreads across the cockpit.

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"If a person kills himself and also 149 other people, another word should be used -- not suicide," Lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr said Thursday.

 

How about mass murder-suicide, Herr Spohr?

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Was just listening to a report from an aviation expert mentioning that the pilots are put on the flight simulators every 6 months and put through extreme flight scenarios which their flying ability has to match up to. During this procedure the pilots' psychological reactions are also noted. Going by what has transpired it looks like suicide unless it is possible for a person to totally lose it for some medical/mental reason and actually do what he did on some kind of mental auto-pilot. For me it is down to either of these options.

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Stuff is already getting lost in translation. He actually said the co-pilot was breathing normally until the crash which would rule out stuff like heart attacks or fits. But I am surprised that they are conjecturing suicide and voluntary action at this stage. Could he have passed out? Would his breathing have changed in that state? Why wasn't his breathing quicker if he was conscious? Was he so cool he never uttered a squeak as he saw the ground approaching? Does one have to have the finger on the button continuously while in descent?

 

Ah ah! No I really assure you nothing is getting lost in translation! He did not say at any point of time he was breathing 'normally' he said breathing.

 

'On entends le bruit d'une respiration dans le cockpit jusqu'au crash'.

 

And he was likely conscious since the pilot and crew could not open the cockpit door with the emergency procedure and the only way it would have happened is by the copilot overriding it.

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I watched part of the interview. There is a point where it is mentioned that the pilot broke off his training for a while. When asked why, the Lufthansa guy said "We are not authorised to give that info" or something to that effect. Why am I a little suspicious?

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"If a person kills himself and also 149 other people, another word should be used -- not suicide," Lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr said Thursday.How about mass murder-suicide, Herr Spohr?

 

My thoughts exactly. This guy was not just suicidal. He was a damn terrorist. What happened was not simply suicide, it was a terrorist attack.

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I watched part of the interview. There is a point where it is mentioned that the pilot broke off his training for a while. When asked why, the Lufthansa guy said "We are not authorised to give that info" or something to that effect. Why am I a little suspicious?

 

Schweigepflicht

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This guy was not just suicidal. He was a damn terrorist. What happened was not simply suicide, it was a terrorist attack.

To be defined as a terrorist attack usually an ideological or political motive is needed. In this case you can go for "mass murder", but until something dramatic comes up, terrorism is out.

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Oh, I know about Schweigepflicht. But I am betting there was "something" going on in that time that might throw light onto this mess.

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He did not say at any point of time he was breathing 'normally' he said breathing. 'On entends le bruit d'une respiration dans le cockpit jusqu'au crash'. And he was likely conscious since the pilot and crew could not open the cockpit door with the emergency procedure and the only way it would have happened is by the copilot overriding it.

 

She's a native speaker, better believe her.

IMHO I read it the same way "The sound of breathing was audible right up to the crash". That's all.

 

 

I watched part of the interview. There is a point where it is mentioned that the pilot broke off his training for a while. When asked why, the Lufthansa guy said "We are not authorised to give that info" or something to that effect. Why am I a little suspicious?

 

I noticed that, too, also that he later was evaluated to be "fully fit to fly". IMHO, that sounds like a medical break in training, otherwise the fitness to fly wouldn't have been mentioned.

On the other hand, it doesn't quite sound like a voluntary break (to visit a terrorist training camp, get radicalized, or whatever wild accusation we can think of).

 

[The German language is quite capable of innuendo. It's shouting at me right now.]

 

EDIT: Oh! sr5dnptylno's post #182 below is spot on! So he *did* have a problem with depression during training. Oh my. I did read the right thing between the lines...

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