Germanwings Flight 9525 crashes in French Alps

520 posts in this topic

 

Hi,

 

Bullshit.

 

Current expectation for an airplane for medium distances is 2.5 to 3 liters/100km/Passenger.

 

Any f*cked up Vauxhall Shitbox or Opel Katzenklo can do 100km with 8 liters and carry 4 folks + 1 driver -> 2liters/100km/Passenger.

 

Cheers

Franklan

 

Here we go again. Statistically how many people are in a car and how many are on a plane? Average passenger load factor for international flights is between 75-80%

 

Whats the passenger load factor in f*cked up Vauxhalls or shit box Opels? (Isn't that the same?!?!) looking into the road and you hardly every see more than one person in a car.

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True... But you wont see 148 cars slam into a mountain!

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Investigators said they had so far been unable to retrieve any data from the plane’s cockpit voice recorder, and the inquiry has been hampered further, an official said, by the discovery that the second black box, which was found on Wednesday, was severely damaged, and its memory card dislodged and missing.

 

WOw, that's not at all suspicious!

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WOw, that's not at all suspicious!

 

Here come the conspiracy folks again. Just a look at the wreckage makes it not at all surprising that the devices are damaged - even if they were at the back of the plane. It slammed into a wall of rock!

 

I recall attending a presentation at the BFU in Braunschweig a few years ago with fellow club members where the presenter (used to be a member of our club) said that they had technicians who were even able to attach connections to chips where the legs had sheared off in order to access the data. Takes time of course & thats what many people (esp the media) dont appear to have).

 

Such chips can reveal interesting information - he quoted a tale of a ditching in the North Sea involving insurance fraud.

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Hi,

 

 

[..] f*cked up Vauxhalls or shit box Opels? (Isn't that the same?!?!)

Nope, their crackling noises while being parked in the driveway (due to excessive proclivity to rust) have different accents...

 

Cheers

Franklan

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technicians who were even able to attach connections to chips where the legs had sheared off in order to access the data..

 

Now that is fascinating. Seriously I greened you.

But now I'm wondering why the gold wires attaching the wafer to the casing would remain intact if the legs sheer off. Thee kinetic energy of the chip package must be enough to snap the legs. I suppose the kinetic energy of the wafer is way less, and its actually glued to case. But what about the kinetic energy of the gold wires?

 

Yep deeply offtopic, but interesting nonetheless

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Double bullshit! Train is by far the most environmental way of travelling distance

 

Train is the most efficient, but actually not by so much, there is around 15% difference between air and intercity rail. And surprisingly, or at least it surprised me, flight is per person per kilometer nearly 30% more energy efficient than a private car and even that turns out to be much "greener" than using a bus.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_efficiency_in_transportation#International_transport_comparisons

 

Note: there are some details that make this all a bit complex. For example busses tend to run regarless of number of passengers meaning that although busses are inefficient, the environmental cost of using a service that is already in operation is almost zero, same is true of trains and to some extent is true for air but there we are much more sensitive to weight so more people does equal more fuel.

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True... But you wont see 148 cars slam into a mountain!

 

More people were killed on the roads in the EU in the last 3 days than were killed in that plane. Source

The most dangerous part of flying is the taxi ride to the airport.

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There is a specific fear in us humans when it comes to aircraft accidents. We imagine that we, being passengers, will notice that something is going wrong, then we will fear that the plane will crash land, or even explode in the sky. And there is nothing, absolutely nothing we can do about it. Just wait for our end to come. The pure ultimate horror.

 

That scenario is different from most dangerous situations we , hypothetically , face when using transport. The time between an arising dangerous situation on the road and the accident itself is very short. And , at least as the driver, we still can react, Somehow. On a train we travel either completely relaxed or , in the worst case, see and feel the accident happen. No warning, no announcement of any kind.

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Frightening to think there are 6000+ of these aircraft in active service...

 

What the hell has that got to do with anything? If we grounded the whole fleet of aircraft types due to one accident, we wouldn't fly at all. Hell, carry that attitude throug other facets of life and we wouldn't drive cars, ride bikes, use toasters...

 

In summary, flippant and dumb statement.

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oli2000 - if you don't understand how statistics work, you should not refute them.

 

You're joking, right? I didn't claim anything - I merely pointed out there are various types of statistics on the topic of aviation safety, which lead to different results.

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Now that is fascinating. Seriously I greened you.But now I'm wondering why the gold wires attaching the wafer to the casing would remain intact if the legs sheer off. Thee kinetic energy of the chip package must be enough to snap the legs. I suppose the kinetic energy of the wafer is way less, and its actually glued to case. But what about the kinetic energy of the gold wires?Yep deeply offtopic, but interesting nonetheless

 

Hi MaM :)

The gold wires are encased in/glued to polymer. The legs aren't.

Direct probing of the chip gets rid of both wires and pins anyway...

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To me it is looking like pitot-tube freezing and an aircrew that failed to notice anything was amiss and flew the aircraft straight into the side of a mountain. One has to question too their judgement taking an unnecessary route across some pretty remote and hostile terrain.

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What terrain is not "hostile" if a plane is going down?

 

Relevant is only how far an alternative airport is. A320s can probably find an alternate every 20mins flying time. So all airports in Austria and Switzerland should be closed?

 

For long range flights ETOPS rating comes into play.

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What terrain isn't hostile? Well tell that to the rescue crews in the Alps. Also one can argue if they had taken a more direct track it would have taken them over the flat fields of eastern France also thus giving them a few more minutes of descent for them to realize what was happening and take evasive measures asap. Also basic pilot training teaches to whenever possible fly a route where one can easily divert to an airport in an emergency.

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Somehow, I find it comforting that this hostile terrain protects the crash victims from what happened in the aftermath of the Ukraine plane crash. TV crews and unauthorized bypassers going through personal belongings and broadcasting images of bodyparts.

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Oh tor, what a terrible loss. Such wonderful musicians and their child. Heartbreaking. Thank you for the link, they will not be forgotten.

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What terrain isn't hostile? Well tell that to the rescue crews in the Alps. Also one can argue if they had taken a more direct track it would have taken them over the flat fields of eastern France also thus giving them a few more minutes of descent for them to realize what was happening and take evasive measures asap. Also basic pilot training teaches to whenever possible fly a route where one can easily divert to an airport in an emergency.

 

So then please enlighten us to what the situation was in the cockpit prior to the crash. Sounds like your mixing vfr and ifr but that would mean you would at least a slight idea what your talking about.

Please find the relevant quote in any manual detailing your supposed basic protocol of avoiding mountains at 40000ft on this planet. There are no direct routes (not until NextGen) but designated nav points the pilot is not allowed to divert from other then if permission is granted atc or in case of emergency.

 

And routes in futue will only be certified if easily accessible by rescue crews? Are you on dope?

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I haven't flown P1 for years but I did a UK PPL IMC and night rating. I don't have a CPL or a full instrument rating. But even if I had no flying experience what so ever or anyone else for that matter I think one can definitely have an opinion on how this accident happened. Eight minutes can go very quick I imagine not much happened on that flight deck during this period and noone on this plane knew of their imminent fate and they all died in a fraction of second. What flying experience do you have? My educated guess is zero otherwise you wouldn't call IFR and VFR ifr and vfr. What pisses me off is imho accidents like this one are avoidable. Maybe I ask too much.

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