Germanwings Flight 9525 crashes in French Alps

520 posts in this topic

Hi,

 

 

Why not combine it with GPS info and ground radar feedback?

Because GPS and Ground Radar give you (only) the speed relative to ground; And that's not sufficient for a decision. What you (as a pilot) need to know is the speed relative to the air (surrounding you).

 

Cheers

Franklan

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Let's wait for the data to accumulate so that we know what caused it. Speculations are only going to make things worse. This is really a sad day. :(

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In a previous era the now defunct second officer would most likely notice a situation like this and raise the alarm.

 

I remember in March 1994 with three pilots in the cockpit Aeroflot Flight 593 crashed into a mountain in Russia on the way from Moscow to Hong Kong.

 

Although there were three pilots in the cockpit when the plane crashed none of them noticed that the two children, a 12 and 16 years old of the pilot, who were also allowed in the cockpit and sit at the controls during the flight, had inadvertently partially disabled the autopilot's control of the the ailerons (wing flaps) and there were no bells to alarm the flight deck crew it was disabled.

 

The crew lost control of the plane and it went into a steep bank and a severe vertical drop and crashed. There was no distress calls made from the crew on this plane either.

 

Regarding the crash today, I'm surprised seeing pictures of the crash site terrain they found the black box so quickly. It's also been reported there was a routine inspection of this aircraft yesterday.

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GPS tracking also came up after the Malaysia Airlines flight was lost in the Indian Ocean, you'd think these days all planes would be tracked via GPS.

 

Equipment for ADS-B Out and Mode-S Enhanced Surveillance is mandatory for all new aircraft above 5.7t MTOW or faster than 250 kn in the European Union since January, for retrofits airlines have time until 2017. In the USA ADS-B Out will become mandatory by 2020.

 

The aircraft that crashed today in France was equipped with ADS-B Out reporting its GPS-derived position, bearing, groundspeed and altitude about once per second. An abbreviated track log of its flight (only one entry every 20-40 seconds) is available publically.

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So this flight info is collated remotely once a second and from the track log link above we see this aircraft today, with all these passengers, having a vertical airspeed of minus 4000 ft/min. Shouldn't be too much to ask to get this info back to flight deck with bells attached within a timeframe of less than a minute if not a few seconds.

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... had inadvertently partially disabled the autopilot's control of the the ailerons (wing flaps)

 

Ailerons are NOT "wing flaps".

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Ailerons are NOT "wing flaps".

 

What do you call those little flapping things on the wings?

 

post-14005-14272287964861.jpg

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Ailerons are used to control the movement around the aircraft's longitudinal axis i.e. the roll and are used to initiate a change of direction to the left or right (in coordination with the rudder - trhe latter only really being effective at lower speeds).

 

The flaps are used to generate lift (at the cost of drag) thus enabling an aircraft to takeoff & land at lower speeds.

 

If we are talking about a plane the size of A320 / B737 the ailerons are located towards the extremities of the wing (have a bigger levarage) and

the flaps are inboard.

 

The type of glider I fly has combined flaps & ailerons, known as flaperons. You do not find these on current airliners.

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Don't know why it happened, or how, but I feel so, so sorry for those who have lost loved-ones so suddenly!

 

I hope against hope that they will still find survivors...

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I hope against hope that they will still find survivors...

 

I'm afraid you will have to forget that. I'd be surprised if they found complete bodies - haven't you seen the pictures where there is little larger than a sheet of newspaper?

 

When my former girlfriend crashed in a Metroliner on approach to Duesseldorf in 1988 there was little left to pick up.

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Aweful and sad and you think " wait a minute...didn´t my mate/next door neighbour/ say at the pub the other day he/she was flying to...". Agree with robinson: hope and hope.

 

Even if your mate/next door neighbour didn´t say it. It´s sad and many people are crying tonight.

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What do the Germans say HEM? Hope dies last?

 

BTW HEM - sorry for your loss, but maybe, just maybe, this is different.

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post-25561-14272297927334.jpg

 

Just walked past this at HAM T2 :(

Terrible for all and that school class just kills me.

 

Never been on such a quite flight as today. I guess it really hit very close to home for many.

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What do the Germans say HEM? Hope dies last?

 

I thought it was the Russians.

 

 

BTW HEM - sorry for your loss, but maybe, just maybe, this is different.

 

Long time ago (we weren't together very long & the crash came several years later). She was first officer on that flight.

Still a shock to see her photo in the newspaper when collecting morning rolls.

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I thought it was the Russians.

 

Long time ago (we wern't together very long). She was first officer on that flight.

 

Russians have given up on hope and embraced vodka.

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There were a number of musicians returning from the Barcelona ring. My friend, the Brunnhilde, decided to rest a little longer and take a later flight.RIP Oleg.

 

Heartbreaking tragedy, so very sad :-(

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Following the Concord crash the media published names of those on board with the results that certain gentlemen took the opportunity to break into the now empty properties (helped by the media insinuating that those on that charter flight were "well-off").

 

Presumably the media will repeat this "service".

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