Germanwings Flight 9525 crashes in French Alps

520 posts in this topic

But when I get the certs and I'm cycling to the health insurance office or the post office, then I feel like I'm magically transported back to the 19th Century. Surely they could use some sort of electronic communication that would be faster and more reliable than me and my bicycle? If the health insurer had automatic notification of certs where someone is not taking time off work, maybe that could be flagged to the doctor and/or employer.

 

You mean like an app? I'm sure there's one on it's way.

 

Agree the system is antiquated. I find it surprising how much is antiquated in Germany or at least 10 or 20 years behind some other countries. Even your medical records aren't portable from one doctor to another, there is no central medical database to protect them. They still seem to be recorded on paper. The office of my doctor contains large metal filing cabinets full of paper. When I visit reception has to take out a cardboard folder containing my medical notes.

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Re the comment about the parents not seeing changes in behavior there are many aspects to this not just that he could have hidden the fact the may heáve been in denial or dissmisive of the changes as being insignificant. We should not place the blame on others for what may or may not have even been feasible points.

 

I think a bigger issue here is if a pilot is deemed unable to fly can he opt to not inform his employer, should there be an override to confidentiality in such cases of public safety and further more was he actually deemed unfit to fly or did he just have a doctors note, for all we know he may have had a sinus infection and deemed it not reason to stay home.

 

Considering he supposedly slashed this note, I myself wonder if he was not facing some new diagnosis, which has been stated was not depression, but that in fact would have long term meant his inability to maintain his job which was repeatedly cited as his life dream. Perhaps he saw his life and dreams slipping away and lost it.

 

While i am by no means belittling the act of a suicide mass murder, I find it very cowardly and terroristic (no I do not mean in the American muslim terror concept) in and of itself, i try to find some empathy in my heart for the pain he must have been facing to come to this place.

 

I imagine with time more will come out, and everyday previous theories are proven inaccurate.

 

I am so saddened to think about the pilot trying to get in and that he knew something was very wrong, anf the passangers who must have seen him and been so afraid. It is just heart wrenching.

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This psychiatrist and pilot does not believe that his actions were predictable:

 

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/mar/27/germanwings-tragedy-pilot-psychiatrist-psychological-evaluation-andreas-lubitz

 

We now learn about his medical history (or we are getting at least many rumours and information of dubious veracity) but we do not know how many pilots are working in the industry without issues despite receiving treatment in the past.

 

We do not even know what he was treated for now and if his doctors even knew that he was working as a pilot. My doctors don't even know my profession and whom I am working for.

 

I also don't want the system to be more "effective". I don't want to have my medical data stored centrally or information about me transferred electronically to my employer, just to reduce the risk of another occurrence of some one in many millions event in another industry that might not have been preventable even then.

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I agree not to blame the parents. Even if they would have seen changes in their grown-up son's behaviour they would have never come to the conclusion that he could deliberately crash a plane and kill everyone inside. It's something that is far beyond anyone's imagination. Therefore I would also not blame the airline or doctors. I think what eventually led to such a tragedy is part of a long term personality disorder which is easy to hide behind a fassade of normal behavoiur.

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Yep how many mothers say about their serial killer rapist son.

 

 

He was a good boy really, very sensitive. The bitch provoked him and deserved what she got. Anyway he didn't do it. It was a police conspiracy

If they can be in such denial after the fact. What hope do we have of them predicting the fact?

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While i am by no means belittling the act of a suicide mass murder, I find it very cowardly and terroristic (no I do not mean in the American muslim terror concept) in and of itself, i try to find some empathy in my heart for the pain he must have been facing to come to this place.

 

Can't say I feel much empathy. He grew up in a "good bürgerliche" family which means he had the means to get help at some point before things got to the stage that he harboured thoughts of murder, to turn away from the evil brewing inside. The fact that he was actually visiting a doctor or two shows that he knew something was very wrong. He chose to ignore that knowledge. Given the choice between bad, mad or sad, I think I'll go with bad, with a bid of mad mixed in.

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Interesting article which COULD explain the POSSIBILITY of how this guy MAY have done what he did. Anyone who has seen someone destroyed by mental health treatments would believe this.

 

http://worldtruth.tv/germanwings-jetliner-catastrophe-the-first-antidepressant-drug-induced-mass-murder-of-the-skies/

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A pilot is the last person who i want to be either running late or having a full bladder at take off. Maybe you are not aware of, but in Airforce, they donot let you fly a fighter aircraft if you even had a fight at home or are having any kind of anxiety or stress. If he is an Air ambulance pilot or an air taxi i can understand that he has to fly at short notice - we had a time line of half an hour for pilot of air taxi to reach the aircraft. But for a scheduled flight, he better starts 3 hour before and be relaxed after he has checked in the roster.

 

Good god! What do you want now? That air personnel be required to empty their bladders right before they step in aircraft? It's called nature's call for a reason - when you gotta go, you gotta go.

 

 

I think mental illness is still a vey taboo subject amongst traditional German families. From my husband's experience of depression, there certainly is a great deal of blind eye turning by doctors and family. I remember my husband telling his mother that he was taking anti-depressants and she almost collapsed in horror yelling that it's all nonsense and that he doesn't have depression. Hiding such illness wouldn't be too difficult from family if they are traditional in their views.

 

Oh I can vouch for that, unfortunately so. My ex's mother was diagnosed with postpartum depression right after she gave birth to him. His (ex's) father refused to accept that even though all signs were there. She never got treated and it worsened into a fully blown bi-polar disorder. She had a couple of manic episodes and the man promptly sent her off to an institute as if to rub his hands off her. Good thing that she's aware of her problem and follows treatment with dedication. While he still refuses to see her even though she hasn't had an episode in decades.

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There could we'll be truth in the article relating to the effects of anti-depressants especially with long term use. From my husband's experience of depression, he's been prescribed a variety of ADs over the years with what I can only describe as very little monitoring by his doctors involved in his treatment. It was only my being closest to him that I could detect some very alarming traits that he steadfastly refused to accept himself. He received regular repeat prescriptions from his doctor without even an appointment to discuss the treatment. He'd have to wait months for a proper appointment so sometimes skipped these just to continue treatment. On his last long awaited appointment, the doctor tut tutted and told him that he shouldn't have taken the ADs for such a long time and that it's likely that the long term affects are permanent including *cough, TMI* permanent impotence. When he asked the good doc why he had continued to prescribe the medication, simple shrug of shoulders was his only answer with quick change of subject.

 

My husband was prescribed yet another medication by another clinic to help his insomnia caused by the ADs. Again these were prescribed again and again until his GP questioned what they were for. Turns out that they were actually a main treatment for schizophrenia with a side effect of helping with insomnia. She was horrified that he had been taking these only occasionally on top of all of his other heart related medication and ADs. I now make it my business to question absolutely everything he is prescribed and the drug interactions. From what I've read of all of his ADs, suicidal tendencies are high on the list of dangers. I would generalise and say that all the doctors that we have encountered over the last years simply do not have the time nor perhaps the interest to look at the overall picture. It is incredibly easy to hide mental illness from loved ones and employers even more so when someone is highly intelligent which the pilot must have been. Medical confidentiality is one thing but willful ignorance is another.

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Without sounding too Sherlockish, in this case the simple suicide answer is totally un plausible and all that is realistically left is that this guy totally lost it. Hopefully they will get some answers from his blood tests for the drug induced question. Experts on talk radio mentioned a quick way to avoid a repeat would be senior onboard aircrew members to have a code that once entered will put the aircraft into automatic land at nearest major airport mode. Also mentioned, within 20 years we will have large unmanned freighter aircraft plying the skies and the success of which will eventually lead to passenger aircraft wihout pilots. If you are stupid or pig ignorant enough to actually think or believe this is all just a conspiracy then be my guest.

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There are no words for just how tragically horrible this event is ... and with every new piece of information revealed it just seems to get worse. I'll admit to feeling heartbroken all week... has all been too close to home.

 

I've spent a long time working in the mental health field and I am dismayed about all the inevitable opinions/ post-event diagnosis that are being made about this chap in various parts of the media... & the number of people who are incredulously asking "why was he even allowed to fly?" and the future potential impact of any number of people in any number of industries who may choose not to seek treatment, or go to great lengths to hide a mental health condition, if there is any risk at all it may threaten their careers.

 

Just to be clear - the wisest mental health experts from ALL the schools of psychiatry and psychology would have to say that these things are NOT foreseeable, we do not have- at this stage of science - ANY reliable knowledge or tools to screen for this potentiality in people, and given the nature of the human condition it is a bloody amazing miracle that, similar to terrorist attacks, these unimaginable atrocities don't actually happen far more often... (In many/most cases when someone snaps and does something atrocious - there is actually no documented history of mental illness.)

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For me I'm a bit shocked to see that so many of the reader comments under the articles in die zeit/der spiegel/etc. are mainly focusing on 'horrible journalism' for releasing the name of the copilot and violating his family and friends' privacy. While I do feel for his family and the situation they are in, I don't understand why people seem so fixated on this issue and are aggravated by it, all the while maintaining that there is insufficient evidence to call anyone a 'Täter' (as though the press conference statements were made by Bild Zeitung rather than the French authorities). I don't know, I have been following this tragic incident both through the English speaking media as well as the German ones and the reactions seem quite different..

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For me I'm a bit shocked to see that so many of the reader comments under the articles in die zeit/der spiegel/etc. are mainly focusing on 'horrible journalism' for releasing the name of the copilot and violating his family and friends' privacy. While I do feel for his family and the situation they are in, I don't understand why people seem so fixated on this issue and are aggravated by it, all the while maintaining that there is insufficient evidence to call anyone a 'Täter' (as though the press conference statements were made by Bild Zeitung rather than the French authorities).

 

I don't know, I have been following this tragic incident both through the English speaking media as well as the German ones and the reactions seem quite different..

 

Why shocked? Because it's essential part of what we call a German culture. Names on mailboxes, but no names in the press.

 

After all, is it really important to know his name? Who gives a flying feck if he is Müller or Fickengraber? For relatives of victims it doesn't matter, too...

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Hi,

 

 

[..] are mainly focusing on 'horrible journalism' for releasing the name of the copilot [..]

some folks have the narcisstic urge to have their name and face on the front page of Spiegel/Times or whatever magazine, no matter how high the costs are. The urge to do something that will change the world to always remember them, you know. Fame.

 

Releasing that name on covers of newspapers/magazines and publishing photos of that individual just gives potential future copycats the assurance that gaining this kind of (sick) fame actually works.

 

 

After all, is it really important to know his name?

No.

 

Cheers

Franklan

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It's not particularly German. It's actually pretty common in continental Europe.

 

The other day I saw a sign of the terrace of a restaurant in a small french town: No photos to be taken while guest are there. Paragraph XY French Law on the right of your own picture.

 

Hard to understand , maybe , for those who give it all and happily to Facebook.

 

There is no final report on that crash released till now. Not even all flight data examined. Not that I would expect a surprise. But still... at least could wait to learn the name.

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There is no final report on that crash released till now.

 

Shock - Horror.

 

The crash was 4 days ago.

 

The "final report" is months away & will not be written by Bild/Spiegel/The Guardian - at least I hope not.

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