Nest thermostat in Germany

[Smaug 5,842]

I've been wanting to get a Nest Thermostat for some time but this gadget hasn't officially launched in Germany. Does anyone know of any business or handyperson who can install one in the Frankfurt area? I would source the device from the UK.

[Hutcho 2,226]

I'm not sure if they have updated the device, but previous they worked only with HVAC heating systems (forced air, generally very inefficient), and these basically don't exist in Germany. There are other solutions, like Homematic for example, that is compatible with the usual German forms of heating (radiator, underfloor) that will allow you to do similar things, at the same time as looking a lot more ugly than the Nest.

[Smaug 5,842]

Thanks Hutcho. Technically, I have no idea it would work, but I'm willing to look at alternatives. I've never seen HVAC systems in residences outside of North America. I have underfloor heating and each room has its own thermostat, although I'd be happy to have the whole flat controlled by a single thermostat. I've found this Nest support page, which states that Nest is compatible with hydronic underfloor heating but there could be other technical reasons unknow to me why it might not work. I'm hoping to find someone locally who knows about this stuff and can (1) advise me if it makes sense for me, (2) install it.

[Hutcho 2,226]

Assuming you have normal thermostats at the moment (temperature control on the wall that controls the underfloor heating), you will have values on your underfloor heating, which when turned on are opened (or closed in some cases, but almost always opened) and allow the hot water to flow through. If you just have manual controls on the values then you need to buy these powered value controllers.

 

If you use a solution like Homematic, you buy a Homematic thermostat (battery driven, batteries last a long time) and a Homematic switch that turns these values on. Then you pair the two, and then when the thermostat falls below the value you set it, the valve will be opened and vice versa.

 

If you know what you're doing, it's actually quite easy to set up, but if you're not comfortable with electricity, you really should get an electrician to install the Homematic switches I'm talking about.

 

I keep speaking about Homematic, because that is what I have experience with, but most of the other systems over here work the same way.

 

It's possible that the Nest can operate like your current Thermostat which does the same thing as I described above but does it at the source (cuts and provides power on the thermostat unit itself), but I have no idea how it works in practice. It looks like RWE might be considering bringing it to Germany, so then I'm sure it would support a lot more common scenarios over here.

 

They are pretty expensive though. You could do the same thing with Homematic for around 80 euros (without the intelligent learning capabilities of Nest, although these don't really work with underfloor heating anyway because it is not reactive enough).

[Smaug 5,842]

Thanks again. I've had a look at the HomeMatic manual and it might be what I am looking for. The valves to the underfloor heating are inside a wall panel and they open and close automatically by the thermostats. There's one valve for each room. I don't necessarily need the smarts of the Nest, and my schedule is too erratic for it to figure it out. I just need something that I can program according to daily schedule (cooler at night and in the mornings, warmer in the evenings) and that I can control remotely (when I travel).

[poohsan 2,486]

 

HVAC heating systems (forced air, generally very inefficient)

??? It cost me around $30/month to heat my 1400sf house in the states (similar climate to here) with GFA (gas forced air heating) and it can warm the house from frikkin' cold to nice and toasty in about 20 minutes. Compare that to the typical house here (I've lived in 3 now) that costs me around 2000 euro to heat for 4 months, and the radiators can warm the house up from frikkin' cold to not freezing in about 2 days.

 

Back to the OP - the first house I lived in here did have a wall-mounted thermostat and a MOV on the heating loop, so it worked sort of like in the states, other than the heating systems take so long to actually warm up the rooms that I would doubt the Nest would save you very much money.

[WDave 122]

Just saw this video about Nest Protect which would make me avoid Nest products altogether. Even though I realize the thermostat was probably developed by a completely different group than the Protect (fire alarm) group. Still, you'd think they'd QA anything they put their brand name on a little better. I guess that's Google Beta for you! ;-)

 

WDave

[Punchbear 1,018]

There's a European version of the Nest that's sold and supported in the UK, Ireland France, Belgium and Netherlands. It's designed to work with conventional heating systems, and takes over from existing thermostats. It does not take over control of your hot water, an installer will have to put in a separate controller/timer for that. Where it differs from the US version is that there is a second component to the installation and that's the Heat Link.  It's essentially an on/off switch for your boiler.  An installer (I keep mentioning installers because the Heat Link is a high voltage device, 220-40V, that you'd need to get a professional to put in) will do that for you.  The Nests base differs between the EU and NA.  The US has 10 different terminals for physically controlling various elements of a HVAC system and the EU has two ow voltage (12V) terminals that hook up to the Heat Link if you want to power the base from it and/or control the Heat Link wired, not via wifi.  In short, the EU version will work in Germany.  So long as it's not electrical underfloor heating or the boiler has some sort of existing thermostat/controller with its own proprietary wiring/system.

[benjaminp 23]

was wondering if anything ever eventuated with this? Im actually looking at installing the Ecobee3... If I can manage to find a heating guy willing to do it.. problem is the voltages here are different to the US (120V vs 240V)... 

 

Anyone know an English speaking Heizungsbauer and/or Electrician? i'm in Ingolstadt?

[SpiderPig 9,839]

Erm... I think you will find that the Thermostat voltage is 12V or possibly 24v... 

 

 

[AnswerToLife42 2,476]

A German "Handwerker" has to garantee for his work and the parts he installed.

I don't think that you will find a professional who will install something from the States with a funny voltage and no German installation manual.

 

What do you want to achive?

 

[yourkeau 7,002]

For voltage you need a transformer (Transformator/Spannungswandler), it costs about 30 euro.

 

You can install everything yourself, just read the manual.

 

15 minutes ago, AnswerToLife42 said:

I don't think that you will find a professional who will install something from the States with a funny voltage and no German installation manual.

This device is sold in Germany as well...

[SpiderPig 9,839]

4 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

For voltage you need a transformer (Transformator/Spannungswandler), it costs about 30 euro.

 

 

What the hell are you on about?

[MikeMelga 6,112]

Nest does not work well without all the online stuff. So without official support in Germany, it won't do much more than the competition.

[benjaminp 23]

On 08/03/2017, 15:39:55, AnswerToLife42 said:

A German "Handwerker" has to garantee for his work and the parts he installed.

I don't think that you will find a professional who will install something from the States with a funny voltage and no German installation manual.

 

What do you want to achive?

 

 

I want to use the Ecobee3 to control our underfloor heating... Its a new build.. So I thought I could get the thermostat I wanted and get the heating unit that plays nice with it? I figure Heating is Heating.. But as far as the User Experience of the Thermostat.. I tried the Ecobee when I was in Toronto, and with the remote sensors.. And I have some smart home plans that if I were to use the local stuff here, its gonna cost an arm and a leg or just doesn't come close... I am waiting on a supported Underfloor heating systems list from them.. Hopefully I can then look into something close..

[AnswerToLife42 2,476]

If you bought a new house it should already have a controller for the underfloor heating.

What you would normally do when you move in is to adjust the heating by adjusting the water flow in every heater loop until you have the temperatures you wanted in every room.

The only thing we do with our underfloor heating is, we switch it on in autumn and switch it off when it's getting warmer (April/May).

No fancy controllers are necessary. If you think you could switch the heating off during the night and only let it run during the day, forget it.

You will have to cool down and heat up tons of concrete within some hours. Impossible. Don't forget the hous is insulated. It will not loose energy that fast.

Last week we had a problem with our heating. We only noticed it because the hot water was a little colder.

The room temperatures were not effected.

We normally go on holidays in winter and reduce the room temperatures to 15°C. Three days before our arrival a friend increses the settings to 22°C.

It takes three day to get the temperatures up again.

Don't play with your underfloor heating.

 

[Allershausen 6,413]

I have electric underfloor heating and do exactly the same. When I first moved into the house I used to turn the heating down when I went to bed, but soon realised that it took far too long to get back up to the desired temperature. I usually turn mine on in November, as I have a separate wood burning fire in the living room that I can use if it's suddenly cold one day in September/October. I too turn it down if I'm going away and my neighbour turns it back up the day before I come home. Underfloor heating is great.

[AnswerToLife42 2,476]

Electric underfloor heating? Must be a nightmare costwise.

Or, do you live in France and have an atomic power plant around the corner?

[Allershausen 6,413]

Not really. Completely maintenance free and gives a consistent heat over the whole floor so it's not necessary to have the temperature set too high. I love it.

[Smaug 5,842]

1 hour ago, AnswerToLife42 said:

Electric underfloor heating? Must be a nightmare costwise.

Or, do you live in France and have an atomic power plant around the corner?

 

It depends. I have underfloor heating. It's "Fernwärme", not electric, but that's beside the point. This year I haven't turned the heat on once. The house is very well insulated, the winter has been very mild and I might be getting some warmth through the walls from my neighbors: I don't know. However, I am the kind of person that doesn't like a very warm flat. If I feel a bit chilly I put on a sweater and if I still feel chilly I turn on the heat, but this winter I just didn't have too.