Slow German internet

177 posts in this topic

Is it just me or is the whole internet standing more or less still here? We're in central Berlin and the fastest fixed line internet of any kind is Telekom VDSL and 50Mbps down and 10Mbps up. This is not even some provincial town, where Telekom more often than not slapped some VDSL cards in the local exchange and then gave up on anyone more than 800m from said exchange. Sure it's a lot better than many poor souls still using bloody ISDN but this is the capital of one of the world's most developed and dare I say wealthy countries, even if Berlin itself hasn't got two red pennies to rub together.

 

Why, for example is VDSL vectoring taking soooo long to roll out here I wonder? Just Telekom lethargy in the face of a lack of competition? You can count the number of towns with vectoring (identifiable by 100Mbps availability) on one or two hands.

 

Even domestic FTTH from Telekom is pathetic, limited in speed to (IIRC) a max of 200Mbps download.

 

Telekom aren't the only culprits...there's no cable internet available in our building in Berlin and where it is available it also generally maxes out at 100Mbps and the upload is 10Mbps. Did you know that UPC (owned by Liberty, which is being courted by Vodafone, who already own Kabel Deutschland) has already rolled out 500Mbps speeds on the cable networks in some Polish cities?

 

IMO Germany is being overtaken at speed by many countries that you wouldn't expect to be in a position to do so. Even flat broke Ireland (my homeland) will have better internet in a couple of years than Germany (vectored VDSL is already the norm there and UPC offers 200Mbps to almost all customers, while up to 1000Mbps down and up FTTH is about to be rolled out to 20% of all premises using the ducts and overhead power lines belonging to the national grid and the government has just last week stated that EVERY premises in the country, no matter how remote, will be able to receive at least 30Mbps by 2020).

 

Anyway, not looking to rant, even if it seems like it, but a bit of discussion about where things are headed here might be interesting.

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This is not even some provincial town, where Telekom more often than not slapped some VDSL cards in the local exchange and then gave up on anyone more than 800m from said exchange.

There is no such thing as "provincial town" because Germany is a decentralised, federated state. In my town of 70`000 located in the middle of nowhere we have 100 Mbps (Kabel Deutschland) or 50 Mbps (DSL).

 

 

this is the capital of one of the world's most developed and dare I say wealthy countries, even if Berlin itself hasn't got two red pennies to rub together.

Again, Germany is a federation, thus a capital is not the richest city. In fact, Berlin is the poorest among major cities in Germany.

 

 

there's no cable internet available in our building in Berlin

It's a problem of Berlin, it has nothing to do with Germany.

 

 

IMO Germany is being overtaken at speed by many countries that you wouldn't expect to be in a position to do so. Even flat broke Ireland (my homeland) will have better internet in a couple of years than Germany

Oh really? Netindex shows otherwise:

 

Germany: 32nd place, 29.06 Mbps

Ireland: 41st place, 24.63 Mbps

http://www.netindex.com/download/allcountries/

 

I have 32 Mbps and don't plan upgrading: why should I? It's enough for everything.

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I have 32 Mbps and don't plan upgrading: why should I? It's enough for everything.

 

I don't want to quote you to death because I'm not actually looking to argue with anyone, rather have a discussion, but...

 

You don't have to upload large files from home do you? 32Mbps will be the 6Mbps of today in a couple of years. When a 512kbps ADSL1 connection was considered broadband, as it really was not so long ago, people also thought they'd never need 6Mbps and today that wouldn't support a small family trying to stream some HD sources simultaneously.

 

And there's the upload speeds, or lack thereof.

 

By the way, I will bet you 100 quid here and now that Ireland will move ahead of Germany on that index within 2 years. There are several large scale rollouts in progress right now. Ireland has a total of 2.6 million premises and the legacy telco will have connected 1.6 million to vectored VDSL by the end of 2016. They have already connected 1 million premises in the past 2 years. That doesn't even consider UPC or the FTTH rollout.

 

To me it seems that Telekom still sees itself as a phone company with a broadband product and KD still see themselves as a cable company with a broadband product whereas in other countries these companies already realise they are just data companies and what that data is should be secondary to them.

 

Oh, I just found an article in the Spiegel entitled Narrowband Republic so I'm not the only one who feels this way!

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The main problem is that everyone wants fast... but the same everyone wants to have it cheap..

 

I am sure if T/kom knew they could command the correct prices... they would up the stakes..

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You don't have to upload large files from home do you? 32Mbps will be the 6Mbps of today in a couple of years. When a 512kbps ADSL1 connection was considered broadband, as it really was not so long ago, people also thought they'd never need 6Mbps and today that wouldn't support a small family trying to stream some HD sources simultaneously.

 

Upload speed is a problem, this I'd like to increase, yeas.

 

 

By the way, I will bet you 100 quid here and now that Ireland will move ahead of Germany on that index within 2 years. There are several large scale rollouts in progress right now. Ireland has a total of 2.6 million premises and the legacy telco will have connected 1.6 million to vectored VDSL by the end of 2016. They have already connected 1 million premises in the past 2 years. That doesn't even consider UPC or the FTTH rollout.

 

Why do you think that nothing happens in Germany? 3 years ago 50 Mbps was the maximum, now it's 100 Mbps. The most high speed country of Europe is Romania, they had 200 Mbps many years ago. Which doesn't surprise me at all.

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It's not that "nothing" is happening in Germany, it's that the pace is so very slow, despite the positive conditions which exist across most of the country (dense population centres, one off housing is very rare, even in rural Germany).

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Why, for example is VDSL vectoring taking soooo long to roll out here I wonder?

Telekom wants to only sell vectoring in combination VoIP and their new cabinets cannot handle vectoring+ISDN/POTS at all. This means they have to wait for all current customers' VDSL+ISDN/POTS contracts to end as vectoring needs to be enabled for all customers (of a given cabinet) at the same time. Since these contracts are 24 months long this takes a while. Berlin and other big cities will get Vectoring starting 2016/2017.

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It's not that "nothing" is happening in Germany, it's that the pace is so very slow, despite the positive conditions which exist across most of the country (dense population centres, one off housing is very rare, even in rural Germany).

 

And there is one negative condition: high average age.

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Hamburg internet connection was slow at least at my place, which usually has fast enough for me connection at about roughly 8 yesterday evening.

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... We're in central Berlin and the fastest fixed line internet of any kind is Telekom VDSL and 50Mbps down and 10Mbps up ...

 

In this part of Dresden, Deutsche Telekom is in the process of upgrading from 50 Mbit/s to 200 Mbit/s that will be switched on as soon as the final stretch of twisted copper (from the cellar cabinet into each apartment). In my first 5 years here by contrast it was an absolute disaster: we had a choice of dial-up or powerline, both s-l-o-o-o-o-w but the latter at least offered a connection on 24/7.

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In my city, near Hamburg, Kabel Deutschland is available till 100Mbps, but now I will move (same city, other street), KD is not available and T-kom is offering only 16Mbps (in the city centre VDSL up to 50Mbps is available).

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It does not help that the prices are too low, you can get decent Internet connections from 20 EUR a month.

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“Never underestimate the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes hurtling down the highway”, Andrew Tanenbaum

Hey Murphaph, have you considered a carrier pigeon for those big files you need to upload! (apologies, the link is a little old - 2008 - but not so dated).

That the benefits of faster internet speed are increasingly diminished by ever hungrier bandwidth usage sounds like an example of Jevon's Paradox.

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Here is an interesting website on the subject:

http://www.netindex.com/download/allcountries/

 

If you scroll down you can hover over a country and see the average. Looking at this then Germany is very similar to many other countries. What surprised me is that Korea and Japan are not as fast as I expected (I thought they were way ahead!).

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I'm pretty happy with my KD 32Mbps connection apart from during "peak hours" (6-10pm) when it has a habit of sporadically getting throttled and fudging up any streaming video.

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If you scroll down you can hover over a country and see the average. Looking at this then Germany is very similar to many other countries. What surprised me is that Korea and Japan are not as fast as I expected (I thought they were way ahead!).

 

I think it's because of their location. There is a cable through Atlantic ocean, so Europe and USA are well connected to each other but I'm not sure what's with Pacific.

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It does not help that the prices are too low, you can get decent Internet connections from 20 EUR a month.

 

Yes, and that includes a cellphone contract as well as a landline with flatrates to cell and landline numbers (o2, 16 MBt).

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I don't miss my shitty Net Cologne with its 4mbps for 30 euros a month now I'm getting an average of 90mbps here in Bucharest for just under 7 euros a month :D

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Freising was one of the first places in Germany to get fibre optic (Glasfaser) internet. 200 Mbit/s they said. The cable runs along the street outside my apartment block. Unfortunately connecting the apartment block to this cable meant digging up a few yards of paving, which was obviously all too much for the landlord, who as far as I can tell only uses the internet once a week to check her emails. So no fibre optic internet for me.

 

In frustration went with Kabel; they offer 100 Mbit/s, I pay for 50 Mbit/s, I get 30 Mbit/s, and my life has improved enormously. Upload is seven times faster than Telekom DSL but still on the slow side (2 Mbit/s).

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