Additional dental insurance

31 posts in this topic

Hi All

I am searching for a good additional dental insurance, as the basic insurance which I have IKK Classic(the main one for health) does not pay for most of the dental treatments.

I have seen some like ErgoDirkekt but they only 250 max on first 4 years (for each year).

I need something better , which will pay more in first years. any suggestions?

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First of all, finding a good supplementary insurance depends on a number of factors. Your age, your dental heslth (current status as well as treatments in past years) and also our expectstions. Therefore tipps from any other consumer may not be really helpful to you because what is good for him or her is not necessarily good for youo.

 

Secondly, your unhappyiness about the "Zahnstaffel", i.e. reduced coveragei in the first years and your search for higher coverage in first year leads me to assume that you already have some existing dental issue for which you know that soon some expensive dental treatment is required. If that is the case - especially if that was already diagnosed by a dentist or if it is obvious to have been in existence for some time for everyone, you will not find an insurance that covers this, as it is an existing condition. Each such insurance will require you to truthfully answer some questions about your dental health and past treatments. If you do not disclose existing problems you are aware of, that is fraudulent behaviour and the whole insurance will be cancelled when you seek treatment (or rather reimbursment for it). If you do disclose it, it will either lead to seriously increased premiums or, which is usually the case, exclusion of these problems/issues.

 

IN order to avoid costly mistakes, you might want to consider getting professional advice from an independent broker, several of which are advertising here on Toytown.

 

Cheerio

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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Hello All,

 

Being a complete wimp, I haven't been to see a dentist for some time now, probably more than 3 years. Unfortuanately but rather obviously, I now need to go to get some work done.

 

I have started checking out the various insurances being offered but have not yet found a satisfactory annswer to the following two questions:

 

1. How does the fact that I have not been to the dentist in some years affect the level of "compensation" I will get from the insurance I finally take out? The policy evaluation questions I have been presented with by various providers ask only about things like my age, number of missing teeth, whether treatment has already begun but no reference to when was the last time I went to the dentist. Is this point hidden somewhere deep in the small print?

 

2. How long do I have to maintain the insurance and how easy is it to cancel? I can't believe it is possible to take out an insurance, get all the work done and then cancel it immediately afterwards.

 

Many thanks for any clarifications.

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@Yorah

1. I don't think when you last visited the dentist matters any (you do know that your normal health insurance covers an annual checkup?).

Knowing (self prognosis?) that you require treatment is much more significant (see Starshollow's post above).

Depending on the policy they can start picking up the bills straight away (see Starshollow's post above).

2. I believe you can cancel an insurance policy the same as any annual contract for services.

 

You may be afraid of your dentist but you at least spoke with non-drill-wielding insurance brokers. Didn't they answer your questions?

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I havent actually approached the insurance companies in person. I have just be looking through their webpages and checking out comparison sites.

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1. Do you know what treatment you need?

2. Is it a self-diagnosis or professional one?

3. Do you know what it is likely to cost?

My case: I knew I needed to go to the dentist (self-diagnosis) for some minor (although multiple) repairs. Signed up with a basic additional package (no point in me quoting you how much as that is all dependent on the personal criteria you read on the webpages). They then paid out 2.5 times my annual premium for each of the first few years and everything thereafter. Anything not covered I was able to deduct from my taxes. The "friendly" broker tried to explain that if I continued to pay over the years I could keep lower premiums than if I signed up again in 10 or 20 year's time when I needed more treatment. However, I need to do my sums on that again.

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1. Do you know what treatment you need?

2. Is it a self-diagnosis or professional one?

3. Do you know what it is likely to cost?

 

To answer your questions:

 

1. Copious and most probably very painful

2. Self-diagnosis - a rather large piece of a molar broke off, a filling is loose and other old fillings have significantly worn away. Luckily no toothache yet!

3. Without any insurance, probably the price of a mid-range family saloon car.

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To answer your questions:

 

1. Copious and most probably very painful

2. Self-diagnosis - a rather large piece of a molar broke off, a filling is loose and other old fillings have significantly worn away. Luckily no toothache yet!

3. Without any insurance, probably the price of a mid-range family saloon car.

 

If a part of a tooth has broken off, a new insurance will not cover this. It is something clearly obvious to you (as it would be for everyone else) and thus counts as an "existing condition". It is the old thing about not getting fire insurance when the roof-top is already burning brightly.

 

Whether a new insurance will cover a lose filling will depend on how obviously lose it is. Warn down filling: well, you have to mention that with most insurance companies (numbers of fillings and age) and it might lead to an extra risk premium or not

 

Basically an insurance is there for potential risks in the future, not for certain costs in near future. That is not how insurances work. While I can fully understand that you won't go to the dentist unless carried there on a stretcher (after being safely tranquilized with a dart from a well-meaning friend or family member...at least this is how it works with me), you could all the time have set-up such an insurance and pay for it. That does not hurt (well, only your wallet).

 

Cheerio

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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post-8763-14162396090067_thumb.jpg

 

These are typical questions in an application for a supplementary dental insurance (private on top of public health insurance's meagre coverage).

As you can see, they ask if there is treatment necessarry or planned (not only by a dentist but also by you).

 

If you answer "NO" and you'll get the first treatment for something that you obviously knew about - like a broken tooth - the insurance company will not only not pay for the treatment but also cancel the contract because of "Vorvertragliche Anzeigepflichtverletzung" or VVA..which basically means fraud.

If you sya truthfully "YES" they will either exclude those teeth of which you know that they'll require treatment or compute a risk premium on top of the normal premium accordingly

 

Cheerio

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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Disclaimer: I am just giving my own opinion (not profi advice!)..

 

No toothache yet and a self-diagnosis is a big plus(in my books). So now you have to get appropriate insurance cover as quickly as possible so you can start getting treated. Fillings are not super expensive but the broken molar I suppose will need something more expensive like a crown or something? Anyhow stop trying to figure it out on your own through websites and just contact someone, (for example Starshollow) that deals in insurance and see what they would recommend. The insurance cover will definitely pay for itself - you just want to be sure it will pay for enough! Anyhow, even if you initially over insured yourself, once you get a detailed dentist's assessment, you could cancel the 'overkill' sections within the first year.

An alternative suggestion is to visit a dentist first and ask them to "unofficially" draw up a plan of treatment for you with estimated costs (this, for obvious reasons, is very dodgy - but not unheard of). Then you'd have an detailed basis on which to select your insurance cover.

But get it sorted asap because stalling leads to terrible tooth pain and eventual root canal, which is not pretty (I should know!)

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@Starshollow

Can't they just say the tooth broke after the coverage started?

And if they have no pain and have received no professional advice on the necessity of treatment can't they just say they didn't really know?

Am not disagreeing with you, am simply curious.

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it is bordering on fraud... very thin ice here to tread on. I would assume that a dentist can see if a tooth broke some time ago or just hours ago? I am no dental expert, but that appears to be plausible for me. It would then depend on what the dentist who is supposed to treat him write in his findings and invoice.

 

Same with the other issues. He can try it, but he has to understand that he'll face the risk of the insurance not covering this AND cancellling the insurance, too.

 

I myself - and I appreciate your kind recommendation above a lot, nevertheless - would not support such a client as it goes contrary to what insurances are meant for. I would not help to hide information from the insurance that is clearly out there. Thre are sometimes grey zones and I am more than happy to explore and stretch them for our clients, on which side I am both legally and ethically as an independent broker. But this case here is beyond grey zone, I am aafraid

 

Cheerio

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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Starshollow is of course the professional and he seems to think your case is somewhat more clearcut than I do. Nevertheless, based on my personal experience and that of others in dealing with dentists and in getting additional dental insurance, I think yours is not a lost cause. In my opinion, your dental info is not "clearly out there" only you know when something happens in your mouth - there is no paper trail. Find a friendly dentist who would be so kind as to note the incomplete tooth as though it were a new incident occurring inside your coverage period, since you have only recently sorted your Zahnzusatzversicherung .

 

 

Befinden Sie sich zu Zeit in einer zahnärtzlichen oder kieferorthopädischen Behandlung

NO (honest)

 

 

oder ist eine solche notwendig

NO (honest - no pain, living happily enough - what do you know, you're not a dentist)

 

 

, angeraten

NO (honest - you have received no professional medical/dental advice - what do you know, you're not a dentist)

 

 

oder beabsichtigt?

NO (honest - you're planning to visit the dentist and will surely heed their recommendations - Punkt)

 

Lots of people do it.

 

Disclaimer: all the above is just my personal opinion and definitely not profi advice!

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Ahimsa: I can understand your line of arguments. He can try to do this as long as he is aware that this might backfire/not work in the end.

As a professional advisor and broker I can't give such advice nor support it directly because of my legal liabilities. Hope everyone can understand that...

 

Cheerio

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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Hi Starshollow. No worries, I understand your legal position.

 

@Yorah I would start asking around for a good "helpful" dentist.

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Go to a Dentist!! The Krankenkasse pays for fillings to be replaced. The dentist can advise you what to do about the molar, maybe its not so bad as you think, especially as there is no pain!!! Book a Kontrolle too, they remove the Zahnbelag once a yr, clean and check etc - all paid by the Kasse. The Extra-Special clean you need to pay extra for.

 

According to this https://www.test.de/Gesetzliche-Krankenversicherung-Alle-Infos-zum-Thema-Krankenkassen-1151006-1152041/ the Kasse pays in your case 50% of the Zahnersatz. So maybe works out similar to years of Zusatzversicherung payments?

 

Start with the dentist - the Kasse will pay for the "Kontrolle" and "Belag-entferning" and the Fillings, and there you can ask about the costs of any other work, and whether its actually necessary!

 

Good luck - ask around for a recommended dentist, and use what the Kasse offers first, before things deteriorate too far to be saved (also other teeth). Look at it this way - you have nothing to loose, you have to pay the Kasse premiums anyway, you may as well get something back - clean teeth once a yr, fillings fixed up and ready to go with a shiny smile!

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Hi, in September, I went to the dentist for the first time in 7 years! I needed four new fillings, one existing filling to be replaced, a wisdom tooth removed and a guard fitted. I also had a deep cleaning. I only had to pay for the fillings - about 350€ (I chose all white ones) and that was it. I have normal public TK health insurance.

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As a dentist I have spent a considerable part of my career explaining or attempting to explain dental insurance.

 

One of the first things patients need to learn is that buying dental insurance when you have a problem is like buying car insurance after you've had an accident. (you'd be better off paying for repairs)

While I think medical insurance is a necessity in our world, at least major medical coverage, dental insurance is mostly money down the drain. That is as long as you are paying for it yourself. If you get it as a benefit with your employment, no problem then.

 

let me explain...

Medical coverage will normally pay in the case of severe trauma, say if you were in a motor vehicle accident. In some cases the auto insurance pays. If on a work site, yet another company normally pays, or the worker's comp fund.

However,

for routine maintenance, cleanings wisdom teeth or even a bad tooth that needs treatment, how does it benefit you to pay the insurance company? Why not just go ahead and pay the dentist?

Car insurance doesn't cover new tires or routine maintenance.

Nobody has grocery insurance, right?

stay with me now...

When you buy insurance, your aren't buying dental or medical care, you are buying "coverage."

I don't want to sound cheeky, but after years of seeing patients hand big money over to insurance companies over time, it has occurred to me that insurance companies have found a way to make themselves totally indispensable on one hand and totally useless on another.

An insurance company has never helped me treat patients. Never, ever. Insurance companies make billions of dollars in "health care" but they never see any patients. They don't do medical or pharmaceutical research, they don't have treatment centers, or doctors (who see patients).

They do not add any value to health care, they just suck money out of the health care system and call it "profit".

 

I have seen patients hand over thousands of dollars over time for "coverage" and not need anything but routine care for years. Then all of a sudden they need something like an implant or a root canal and crown.

The insurance company says, OK, we'll pay up to $1000 (whatever their annual maximum is) and that's it. The patient ends up having to pay the rest of the bill out of pocket despite having paid thousands over the years for "coverage".

 

Instead of buying supplemental insurance, why not put the money aside in a dental fund that is yours to spend as you see fit?

 

just my $.02

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What is a dental fund, zahnsan? :D ( your final sentence )

Nice post and rant about insurance companies ( which I partly share ) but aren´t you talking from a US perspective? There are respectable German dental insurance tariffs out there - NOT wonderful but respectable and with clearly defined terms and conditions and many , many Germans and residents of Germany in the public health system and with supplementary private dental tariffs have benefited.

I am a professional independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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Thats odd. I was with ikk classic no add-ons and they covered root canals, fillings temp and perm (not necessarily all the materials if you elect the higher quality ones, though) but always the time was covered if not all / some / most materials. im sure when i enquired even a small contribution towards an implant which i would never have expected in a million years.

 

Do you maintain a bonusheft booklet with historic stamps from the dentist? It looks like a little credit card sized fold-up sheet, you can pick up blank ones from most dentists. Then go on a trek to every and any dentist you ever visited in germany and ask them to have fun stamping it to within an inch of its life according to any appointments where a check was done, often in parallel to a treatment. You get a little more reimbursed that way if you are an avid stamp collector, no matter what krankenkasse you are with. (i think).

 

I can imagine bureaucrats in the amts would be salivating at the prospect of a stamping orgy should such a bonusheft be started up when you tried to anmeld.

 

Anyway, please do not ignore it. Chances are it will just get bigger and more disruptive the longer you leave it. I even insist on more frequent x rays and kasse always covered.

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