AOK insisting on back payments

81 posts in this topic

Dude, you really have to look at it as if it were a tax. Since 2009 it has been mandatory to pay this "tax". The law states that you also have to pay back-taxes, as you were technically covered anyway.

 

It's a sucky situation, but not one that you're likely to get out of, so the best thing would be to do what Starshollow says, and try to deal with them on a monthly payment basis, both for future payments (which willl be monthly anyway) and for the back payments.

 

Giving them a hard time for doing their job is not likely to make them want to help you.

 

I had a similar situation with actual taxes back in 2006. You can talk to the public employees here, and they'll generally try to help you any way they can, as long as you're going to pay.

 

Good luck...

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Sarabyrd, you did wrong in changing the name, What AOK does is an ABUSE. Law or not. And this not a matter of just finance either. But i guess you most be a Law-person.

If you dont like how i think, erase my profile, it would be completely intolerant of your part. But it is in the rules for moderators, right?

 

Snowflake, the law applies to you. Live with it. Most topics relating to insurance are gathered in Finance. Live with it.

 

If you don't like the advice that you get here for free ask a lawyer and pay the price. As for "erasing" your profile that's up to you. I can't deactivate anyone except myself.

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The OPs post is well muddled and so long-winded I am not going to read it twice but isn't his gripe that he is being asked for back-payments for time he was out of the country?

 

The gripe is that the OP falsely believes that they are entitled to special treatment based on a lack of understanding of the way things work.

 

Handed back the health card, with a handwritten note asking to cancel.

 

Failed to leave DE completely and/or correctly. Came back and never had proper insurance. Decided to get some, got stung for back payments.

 

Last seen whining at folks who tried to explain where the OP failed.

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Sarabyrd, i am living with it. Obvoiusly

 

If you read

 

But i admit i did expected something more out-of-box (my expectations, my fault anyway) i get that,

 

anyway i thanked everybody, more than once, if you go and read you will see. So dont treat me like if i was intolerant.

 

The only thing i dont like, is when somebody puts the casette on, like a robot, That is honestly not helping, just the feeling to like to give somebody a speach to feel superior.

 

I admited i ignored stuff. But not many did coments in what i ask, or alternative sugestions. either. Just 2 or 3 showed good faith

 

And what does Snowflake means: Is one of your cats name?

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Snowflake, precious and unique - see enkieke

 

"My German pride"? *snicker*

 

And of course it had to be in Berlin.

 

*le sigh*

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Griogarach.

you are very rude. i am not whining at nobody

you are not reading, please try to help or dont get in it!

 

I know what the initial mistake was, i dont complain about it, even if unfair. i was the first one to admit. The thing is not that, is to keep moving, the paperwork that they ask, is always more and more, i answered with good faith, but a person should not wait months for them to decide

 

Guest:

I will try to see things as you say, but see my way one second, please...

each of the 2 longest Post i posted today, had questions as well and diferrent scenarios possibility. Nobody here has refuted that, Nobody answer that questions, like the one i did about what the gezestbuch saids that if you are selfstandig you have no obligation to pay.

I get some people want to help, and thats why i got in, but also a lot are not been fair, and had no willing to help, only to critiseze.

 

EVERYBODY, I KNOW WHAT THE ORIGINAL MISTAKE WAS.

 

El Jeffo

snicker?

, put your hand on your hart for one second. you know a lot of guys here are not been fair. There is some hipocrisy.

I wanted help, and all i am getting is.... Who do you thing you are to ask for preferencial treatment. Basically just that. Read to yourself, not thinking how the rest will react to it.

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After putting my hand on my hart, and my other hand on my hip(ocracy), I extend my most hartfelt apologies for the *snicker*. Please allow me to assist you in your time of need:

 

 

i did about what the gezestbuch saids that if you are selfstandig you have no obligation to pay

That's wrong. You must have misunderstood it. Everyone who lives in Germany is required to have state- (BaFin-)approved health insurance.

 

As darkknight would say, your welcome.

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like the one i did about what the gezestbuch saids that if you are selfstandig you have no obligation to pay.

But they did answer you. They answered that the law changed in 2009.

 

§ 193

Versicherte Person; Versicherungspflicht

 

(3) Jede Person mit Wohnsitz im Inland ist verpflichtet [...] eine Krankheitskostenversicherung [...] abzuschließen

 

You can read the entire law here, albeit in German

http://dejure.org/gesetze/VVG/193.html

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http://www.sozialgesetzbuch-sgb.de/sgbv/5.html

 

(5) Nach Absatz 1 Nr. 1 oder 5 bis 12 ist nicht versicherungspflichtig, wer hauptberuflich selbständig erwerbstätig ist.

(5a) Nach Absatz 1 Nr. 2a ist nicht versicherungspflichtig, wer unmittelbar vor dem Bezug von Arbeitslosengeld II privat krankenversichert war oder weder gesetzlich noch privat krankenversichert war und zu den in Absatz 5 oder den in § 6 Abs. 1 oder 2 genannten Personen gehört oder bei Ausübung seiner beruflichen Tätigkeit im Inland gehört hätte. Satz 1 gilt nicht für Personen, die am 31. Dezember 2008 nach § 5 Abs. 1 Nr. 2a versicherungspflichtig waren, für die Dauer ihrer Hilfebedürftigkeit.

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El Jeffo,

Now you make fun of me. i hoped you were better. and you will be aplaude shortly for it. With this rating green and red system, that Toytown has.

 

I came here, and shared very personal things, wich is something i never do. Maybe this today was my first post ever in a blog.

 

The anonymity of this platform, i thought would makes something original, that it would bring something out-of-the-box.

 

But i keep getting the same, like nobody boder to read all text, or maybe everything escaleted in a wrong because something sounded more agresive, I dont care anymore. i thanked ennough today

 

I never asked for something free, not then or now, i wrote more than once, why at a moment i had no money, Also to explain i wanted nothing free

In return i get your mockery. Makes you feel better how your Toytown friends rate you good, for making fun of me, and call me a whiner, a snowflake.

 

What are you reading my post, why are you still there?

 

I am just a guy in waiting line to see a doctor. I admited my initial mistake about ignoring laws (as wrong as they might be) but i didn´t ask advice about that, i said "the waiting line is not moving, and i am being insulted in the phone because my german is not good ennought. Somebody knows something i can do?

I thanked answers, even nobody gave an alternative to what i already knew, and if you dont feel there is another alternative i get it. THANKS anyway. i might do that, keep going, waiting in a line that keeeps going since winter.

 

So, yes. This was a gigant mistake.

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(5) Nach Absatz 1 Nr. 1 oder 5 bis 12 ist nicht versicherungspflichtig, wer hauptberuflich selbständig erwerbstätig ist.

 

Yes. That means you don't have to get public insurance. You can get private instead. :)

 

You have to be insured either way.

 

 

But i keep getting the same, like nobody boder to read all text,

It's more like you are unwilling to accept the answer. We can't think outside the box on this one, as there is only one correct answer.

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Well, there you have it. Go down to the AOK, show them that and accept their apology.

Advert closed, since you have your own answer.

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You might try your luck with TK rather than with AOK. At least they offer to communicate in English I read on TT.

And you should try to get a grip how the system works. Maybe ask some organisations which support immigrants, like Caritas etc. where you can learn the rules.

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I haven´t called him an immigrant. Nevertheless, he seems to need the same kind of help immigrants do (as he seems clueless about how the system works). And Caritas might at least know where to get it.

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Here are just some of the relevant information you could have found by a wee bit of dilligence and trying to get yourself informed...but it is of course so much easier to expect THEM (whoever THEM is) to inform you properly. this is not a socialist country where the state takes care of everyone (whether he wants it or not) but a free society where citizens have rights AND obligations.

 

Intersting info about the amnesty last year you missed - could have triggered you to think about your situation and become pro-active (though if you never ceased to be a member of AOK, it woul dnot have helped you so much, but still)

 

 

http://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=300676

The Toytown WIKI gives you all the info about being obligated to have health insurance, too:

 

 

http://www.toytowngermany.com/wiki/Health_insurance

And even if you have never seen or heard of Toytown before in your life - which is pretty hard for an English speaking Expat to do when googeling, there is ample other information out there to this regards. Among the top 10 listings a Google for the Keyword combination Self-employed - Germany - Health insurance, you'll find of course Toytown at place one, but then next for instance HOW TO GERMANY with this information:

 

 

http://www.howtogermany.com/pages/healthinsurance.html

Other similar information can be found here

 

 

http://www.internations.org/germany-expats/guide/15986-health-insurance/health-insurance-in-germany-15998

 

 

http://www.slowtravelberlin.com/guide-health-insurance-germany/

 

 

http://www.exberliner.com/features/people/how-to-get-health-insurance-in-germany/

 

 

http://www.crcie.com/self-employed-option.html

and so on and so forth. Stop pretending that you couldn't know about this - you could have and you should have, and that is exactly your problem. thousands upon thousands of other Expats have found out and dealt with it - why not you, too?

 

Cheerio

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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each of the 2 longest Post i posted today, had questions as well and diferrent scenarios possibility. Nobody here has refuted that, Nobody answer that questions

 

OK Snowflake, I'm bored. I've just read through your screed and searched for everything marked 'Question' or closed with a Question mark, here you go have some answers...

They won't help though.

 

 

I asked, what if i have an accident, what would happen?

 

You would be taken to a hospital, treated and presented with a bill.

 

 

Hipotetical Case: If i had had a serious accident, would have AOK Bayern paid or help with the treatment?

 

Yes, and then they would present you with a bill for all the missing back-payments.

 

 

Only theory i have left is: I have read that: the Sozialgeseztbuch saids: that if you are selbstandig, then you dont have obligation to have a Krankenversicherung. Somebody knows if that is still valid like that?

 

Nope, everyone in Germany must have insurance.

 

 

If Anybody has any sugestion?

 

Yes, contact AOK and start making a payment plan.

 

 

BUT THAT CHANGES NOTHING. Right? The Law is the Law, etc etc. This is what i meant with your frigide way to deal with people

 

Correct, nothing that anyone says on this forum can change the law.

 

 

Question: What happens to homeless people in Germany, where do they get medical attention? Do they?

 

They get treated and presented with a bill. If they don't pay it then the usual legal processes are followed to recover the money. Often these fail because homeless people are without funds.

 

 

Maybe i should leave the shared apartment where i am and move to the street, and then would it be better. Or is it the answer of a First World Country, to let them gradually die, where they can not be seen?

 

No-one gets left to die, they have an outstanding debt after treatment, just like you.

 

 

Question2: If you are open minded you will found this question interesting... Limite of time they can keep me hanging without they deciding if they cover me or not. As i said i have been collaborating, "dont forgett that". I admit that to fill out the formulares takes me some time, but they are also very slow. So lets asume i keep filling out, number 5 , number 6, formulare number 8. And finally another year from now they said OK.

scenario 1: enkieke, leasing up: Packpayments with discount will be 4000 Euros, Payment plan, etc. When you are done, you can be cover again. I can not imagine how many years it will take me to save that but lets imagine it anyway. All that time paying, i am still without cover, and still acumulating debt like right now (they want to charge me for this time they send me impossible formulare as well). That is the case right now,

Think about it one second. A bus runns me over tomorrow. Then what?

Leave my body at one side of the hospital door, until they decide? if i am worth it or not. Rules, right?

 

Again, no-one gets left to die because they can't pay. You just leave hospital with a bill.

 

 

THE HOLY LAW. Maybe they said, oh well, he started paying, so maybe then they decide to help and call the hospital. I should have FAITH in that?

 

You pray to your god if you want to, but he has no standing in a German court, so he won't help you with your debt.

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listen to Starshollow's advice, he knows what he is talking about. It is the only way to short the mess out...

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...listen to Starshollow's advice, he knows what he is talking about.

 

Except this bit:

 

 

Jesus bloody wept....

 

That's another topic for discussion...

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