AOK insisting on back payments

81 posts in this topic

Hello, i am a bit new in this of asking help. But for some time i have have a serious problem, and maybe somebody knows an alternative

 

I was insure in AOK Bayern, last time, until september of the year 2010, insurance i paid half and half with my employer at that time.

My last days insure, i went to the offices of AOK, in the Ungererstr, München, where i gave back my AOK card, plus an Abmeldung letter. I did it so, because i knew i couldn´t paid the insure on my own later.

 

I did it, in good faith, to avoid debts, and any possible missinterpretation later that could be confuse with dishonesty.

 

I inform that i would stay a couple more months in München and later travel outside of Germany for some time to visit my family and rest.

Nobody in the offices then inform me that to have a Medical insurance, in Germany was mandatory, or either nobody inform me that it was possible to ask the help of the state, or a Jobcenter, if my own resources were insuficient. As they were.

 

I cameback a year later to Germany in july 2011, and since then i wanted always a Medical Insurance, but my Finance problems were the same and i couldn´t. I found only one job as selbstandig for 1 month, and then decided to move to Berlin and work as a Guide Tour (selbstandig again)

 

I never went to a doctor, or accept any medical help. Even if i needed

 

But since 21/02/2014 , i decided and been working to have a Medical Insurance again, with the help of a Jobcenter, here in Berlin. All i wanted was the medical insurance

It was this way, that it came to my attention, that somehow, AOK Bayern still considere´s me to be zuständig (member) even ignoring my official Abmeldung, and the fact i returnet the card in 2010. This was a surprise for me.

 

According to Germany if you have have no insurance, then the last one that you had, is the one that will be considere still valid

 

I understand the reason for this law in Germany, most be to help the people, protect them. But now it is been use to do exactly the oposite

 

In 2010 i acted in good Faith, perhaps a naive mistake, but a mistake that shares responsability with AOK.

And now they love this, a possibility of free money in exchange for nothing, something they never gave.

 

in the first week of Marz 2014, i call AOK Bayern. They told me that i did correctly givind my AOK Card back in 2010, but perhaps i would have to paid every month, from 2010 until now, so i could have a valid Medical Insurance again. (Thing that with all do respect, i do considere truly Insane and morally incorrect). Besides,,, does people understand that the reason to go to a Jobcenter, is in part not to have the Money ennough. They just dont heard, they dont care

 

1 Formulare, 2 Forms, later 3, later 4 Formulares:

 

One week later or more, i receive a long Formular/Anmeldeformular, wich i try to fill out. And i sended back

Eventually i asked for help, to fill it out, in AOK offices of Berlin (they said they send it and they lost it later, wich delays all the first time), and to a friend for the next formulars i would receive later. I have filling out more than 3 formulars, and send them back to Munich, and again already receive a fourth. And this time, ask so much stuff, like tax declarations of then and now, and many stuff i dont get and would take months also.

I explain my problem with translations to a Mr Biller of AOK, and he laughts of me, with mockery. I feel embarrase to keep asking help to a friend for translating.

I asked, what if i have an accident, what would happen? They dont admit possible responsability either

 

Observations:

Hipotetical Case: If i had had a serious accident, would have AOK Bayern paid or help with the treatment? According to what you say; Would you have, even known that i use to be insure/or i am insure in your company. For what hospitals in Berlin say. You woudn´t known, and in consequence , either taken any action to help or assist. How can you later expect payment of services not given.

 

I understand that the distance complicates things. But i have been trying to get a Mecical Insurance and go to a doctor since the last days of Februar 2014, and the only obstacle in the way is still AOK. Things complicate because of absurd rules, lack of help in translation, somebody loses Formulars, and a frigide attitude of office people.

 

This situation is literally having a very detrimental and bad effect on my Health. It depress me, and the reasons in my body that make want to have a medical help, continue to be ignore.

 

Only theory i have left is: I have read that: the Sozialgeseztbuch saids: that if you are selbstandig, then you dont have obligation to have a Krankenversicherung. Somebody knows if that is still valid like that? Because it might give some release.

 

If Anybody has any sugestion? or something constructive to say, it would be thanks.

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Maybe this will help with the language side of your problem:

 

http://www.aok.de/nordost/englisch/health-insurance-206097.php

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All residents in Germany are required to have BaFin-approved medical insurance. So yes, apart from the time you were not living in the country (if you can prove that), you are liable for backpayments.

 

You may have difficulties with money, but unfortunately for you, that is the law. No point claiming it's illegal, morally wrong or anything else. You need to know and abide by the laws of the country you have chosen to reside in.

 

Your best bet will be to talk to them and draw up a plan for making the backpayments gradually. They may be able to put you on the lowest amount for backpayments if you can show you had no/little income - but you will still have to pay.

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As Ruapehu said, you are legally required to have medical insurance as long as you are resident in Germany - this is nothing new and no secret, so it was your duty to make sure that you had it.

 

Even if you were not working or had a limited income, you should have gone to the authorities about it - registering unemployed or on a low income would have also given you medical coverage as far as I know.

 

Simply handing back your insurance card and a written note saying that you no longer want their coverage does not release you from medical coverage as long as you remain in Germany - the only way for coverage to stop is if you change to a different insurance company or die(!)

 

Maybe one of the insurance experts will come along later with some information as to how best to approach the situation, but the AOK has done nothing wrong, and you would do good to bear that in mind!

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it was illegal to reside here without health insurance in the first place. health insurance is mandatory in germany and there is no way to get out of it, unless you leave the country for good. You cannot be selective by having health insurance only when you want to go to the doctor. if you had no money to pay, then you should have gone immediately to the jobcenter. this is bad news, but the AOK has not broken any law.

 

It is better to come down to a plan quickly to make the backpayments in installments as you can afford. If you can present proof of low income, they might be sensible. perhaps our great insurance experts can also drop a line concerning your situation.

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That all may be true, but it isn't what OP wants to hear.

 

@OP: AOK is totally abusing you and asking for money that you don't have. This is totally unacceptable and you should do the following:

 

1. Go to the police station and file a report, detailing the abuse that the AOK has been giving you.

 

2. Go to a lawyer and sue them for over-covering you, when you didn't want to be covered at all!!! (I learned from the GEZ-dodgers, that there's a law that states you can't be forced to be a member of an organisation you don't want to be a member of. That has to apply here just as much as it does to the GEZ)...

 

3. Get naked and masturbate (not really relevant, but always a good idea).

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Ok, I apreciate that most of you dedicated me a line. Thank you. Even I can tell most of you are german educated. ( You have this german discipline, go by the rules no matter what, never think different ) With all do respect.

 

just maybe AOK is following the Law, even some politics get a free meal from this company probably. Doesnt matter, can not be change. Not by me.

 

....but again "there was no free ridding". This Law It is not common and widespread knowledge either as you said. It is not to not-native germans, al least. And it matters because German embassies invite and insist to the sons of German to come to Germany and live here

 

And you have obvious the fact, that i have been collaborating, i have been trying to give them the information they ask, but every time a new formulare gets in the mail asking for more. Wich by the way includes a line like: answer in less than one week, "like if they care". Hypocrites.

 

But I call for assitance and they mock me when i explain how difficult it is. That not many friends speak german and english, they laught on me at the phone. Thats not right! There is no respect in it.

I ask if i can have the same formulare in english to save time every time i need help with it (why not, you always proud how international you are).

Of course not. YOU ARE IN GERMANY, YOU SHOULD SPEAK GERMAN. I dont demand things to be in english, i know where i am, but you could have the cortesy to help somebody, with out giving him a speach about rules or of why is he is in Germany if he doesnt speak german. I am talking "RESPECT" "CORTESY" "COMMON DECENCY"

So "Starshollow" , yes, there is a fuck“”“ need in attacking them!

 

i m not proud and pity is tha last thing i wanted, but i do have a low income. I swallowed my pride to go to the Jobcenter, i try to avoid that a long time

It is not the case that i wanted a free ride, I DID NOT. The point is i didn´t want to have an argument with another german ROBOT in a desk in AOK at the end of each month because there was not ennought money in my account,

 

i didn´t know that could ask later back payments like this. All your answers are robotic and/or like i was cheating. It is the opossite, i understood i was doing the honest thing

BUT THAT CHANGES NOTHING. Right? The Law is the Law, etc etc. This is what i meant with your frigide way to deal with people

 

Question: What happens to homeless people in Germany, where do they get medical attention? Do they? Maybe i should leave the shared apartment where i am and move to the street, and then would it be better. Or is it the answer of a First World Country, to let them gradually die, where they can not be seen? I dont imagine them receiving Quimo either.

 

Question2: If you are open minded you will found this question interesting... Limite of time they can keep me hanging without they deciding if they cover me or not. As i said i have been collaborating, "dont forgett that". I admit that to fill out the formulares takes me some time, but they are also very slow. So lets asume i keep filling out, number 5 , number 6, formulare number 8. And finally another year from now they said OK.

 

scenario 1: enkieke, leasing up: Packpayments with discount will be 4000 Euros, Payment plan, etc. When you are done, you can be cover again. I can not imagine how many years it will take me to save that but lets imagine it anyway. All that time paying, i am still without cover, and still acumulating debt like right now (they want to charge me for this time they send me impossible formulare as well). That is the case right now,

 

Think about it one second. A bus runns me over tomorrow. Then what? Leave my body at one side of the hospital door, until they decide? if i am worth it or not. Rules, right? THE HOLY LAW. Maybe they said, oh well, he started paying, so maybe then they decide to help and call the hospital. I should have FAITH in that? But how when so far everybody sticks about rules, and nobody showed good faith.

 

but lets be more possitive:

 

scenario 2: Backpayments, sign a contract, and you will be cover for small injures, while you keep doing the payments. I could pray for that and have FAITH. ¿? Since winter i am waiting that attitude.

 

Law people speak about Law like if it was a gift of Law. (Justice is barely mention today) So they dont dare to move a koma from it. It is not. Law is just the registration of what the common sense of the time was, But give it a few years, and Common sense will not be so common as you think it is.

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Sarabyrd, you did wrong in changing the name, What AOK does is an ABUSE. Law or not. And this not a matter of just finance either. But i guess you most be a Law-person.

If you dont like how i think, erase my profile, it would be completely intolerant of your part. But it is in the rules for moderators, right?

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I did before press by accident in some cases, this buttons of + and - that there is to the right down of every coment, not sure what happen when i did that. It is my first day in Toytown, maybe the last as well

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Dude, you sound frustrated. Might I make a suggestion?

 

 

3. Get naked and masturbate (not really relevant, but always a good idea).

 

 

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maybe the last as well

 

first thing you've posted which I can agree with.

Stop throwing tantrums at all those telling you what you don't want to hear.

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for someone who is, according to your profile almost 40 years old, you don´t seem to have a very good grasp of how things work...

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RedWingsRule.

 

I guess i dont! you are right, thats part of what led to this actually. But i think thats not so bad, I have my ideals, and i defend them to death. And again that could end up been the case

 

Ruapehu.

 

You can disagree with me, but probably not denie, that there is a point in what i say here, if you really read it.

So if you dont like how i think, dont read my posts or request the moderator to eliminate me again.

I can deal with things i dont like, i have done it for months or more, I posted here to think outside of the box (as they said). And I didn´t heard anything a recepcionist in AOK hasn´t said.

-I know all this later maybe goes to a payment plan, if it was so simple i could speak about it with the jobcenter already, The problem if you didnt read, is that doesnt matter how much i ve send them we never get there. Law is the law, ja. Thank you

 

El Jeffo.

 

I wrote i thank you all for your answers in the beginning of the text, and is not my idea to shoot the messenger or insult anybody. If some of what i said touches your German pride, there is not much i can do about, i have my fuckups to deal with as you said.

I didn´t post to get in ridiculous fights, i am talking about a corrupt system managed by people that doesnt care, and i just receive comments like "things are as they are", keep waiting and filling up formulares. I know they are as they are. Thank you for the help and advice i am being offered

 

And the thing i disagree with Sarabyrd, is that she put this in Finances, i believe that fribbles it, It is more than that, is sozial matter

 

I wish everybody the best, truly, good health and work. Those who had the intention to help THANK YOU, TRULY. But dont try to start fights with me, please.

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Ah, you have calmed down. See, a good wank really does help. :)

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Jaycool. even ifit is not the popular feeling in here. I do try to be respectfull to everybody, if i dont like something i ignore and go somewhere else. I dont post about it.

 

And i dont know if you post to make fun of people, or if you do to it try to make people feel better and laught, i would like like to think the best.

 

But to answer you. i am fuck** lights years away from being calm

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Just to set a few things straight:

 

* Just because the answers you're getting are not what you want to hear doesn't make them wrong.

 

* This is an internet forum for english-speaking expats, not for Germans (although there are a few Germans that also participate). You haven't pulled the Godwin card yet, but I can feel it lurking in the wings. The responses you're classifying as from nasty "Germans" are from Americans, Brits, New Zealanders etc. that have had to cope with the same system you're trying to cope with.

 

* When you move to a country, it's your obligation to find out what the rules and laws are. No one is under any obligation to hold your hand through all this, pat you on the head and make it all go away because you're such a special flower.

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The OPs post is well muddled and so long-winded I am not going to read it twice but isn't his gripe that he is being asked for back-payments for time he was out of the country?

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the.frollein

What you are saying was already cover in the conversations here. Read again. Or if what you want is an applausse, and great rating for your coments. Then i am always interested in seing how those sozial hipocresis work.

Good luck with it.

 

optimista,

i was out and in again. when i came back i coudnt pay it, didn´t have a card anyway. but thats not the point. The point is even with good intentions and trying to do things right, AOK doesnt make a decision. And it doesnt matter how much information i gave them, they always send more questions.

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