Getting fired with an unlimited contract

91 posts in this topic

11 minutes ago, wanderboy said:

I'm wondering what others would do or respond to the situation... :/

Your boss politely suggested that you should leave the company, because he/she thinks your work is not up to scratch...

 

What do you want to hear from folks, after all, you're a bloke who seems to be unable to look up the unknown term of "works council" on wikipedia...?

 

No, you won't get Arbeitslosengeld when you do what the boss suggested: Quitting yourself. That's obvious, isn't?

 

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first, the fact that he "asked you nicely" doesn't mean squat.  As you say yourself, he is usually not so nice, and in fact he is not being nice now.  It sounds like he's just pretending to be nice because he wants something and he is not in a position to FORCE you to agree.  So please drop this special consideration you're giving him right now.  

 

second, since he did not put it in writing nothing has actually changed yet, and you will continue to have a job until someone submits a kündigung in writing.  I suspect he can't really do that from his side as what he is doing sounds fairly illegal (unless you are still in probezeit).  He will most likely find a way to do it legally, but that will take more time.

 

The point in all of this is that don't have to leave your job in three months, as it stands now.  Don't panic!  I do think you should start looking for a new job asap but this is mostly to save yourself an unpleasant working environment in the near future and to just get you out of there asap.

 

a worker's council is called a Betriebsrat in German.  It's not a union but exactly as described, it's a council that represents the interests of workers in the company.  check to see if you have one, and go talk talk to them!

 

what is the notice period according to your contract?

 

If he ends up firing you legally, then you will be able to collect unemployment from the start (provided you meet the other criteria) but if you quit at the end of these imaginary three months deadline, you will have to wait three months to collect. 

 

the very simple answer is: start a serious job search immediately but do not resign until you have a new contract (signed!)

 

Note also that he is not doing you a favor by offering to give you a Zeugnis, he is required to give you one by law.  And it has to be at least minimally flattering.  I do suggest you lay on the "nice" face from your side as well and get a zeugnis asap.  HAVE A GERMAN SPEAKER REVIEW IT!  Because references have to be flattering, they have developed all sorts of ways to say nasty things but make it sound nice.  So have someone who understands the lingo review it for you.

 

 

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In your place I would give in my notice until the end of the month and start looking for jobs.

3 months should be plenty to find a job.

You will loose ALG for some months if you can't find anything right after, but this shouldn't be a problem.

Getting lawyers into this will just make things worse.

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12 minutes ago, bbogdanmircea said:

In your place I would give in my notice until the end of the month and start looking for jobs.

3 months should be plenty to find a job.

You will loose ALG for some months if you can't find anything right after, but this shouldn't be a problem.

Getting lawyers into this will just make things worse.

 

No, don't quit! I think your boss asked you nicely because he probably has no real grounds to fire you. So all he is trying to do is to lower the Abfindung he might have to pay to you. However, things will get nasty. Therefore, I would start looking for a new, good (!!) job now. Once you found a good job then I would quit. If you don't find a new job fight hard for a good Abfindung! That means don't quit, don't sign anything unless reviewed by somehow who knows the law (lawyer, Betriebsrat etc.).

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53 minutes ago, franklan said:

Your boss politely suggested that you should leave the company, because he/she thinks your work is not up to scratch...

 

What do you want to hear from folks, after all, you're a bloke who seems to be unable to look up the unknown term of "works council" on wikipedia...?

 I did mentioned that everyone's assesment of my work was fine even from the other branch offices that I worked with. Anyways, thank you.

52 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

first, the fact that he "asked you nicely" doesn't mean squat.  As you say yourself, he is usually not so nice, and in fact he is not being nice now.  It sounds like he's just pretending to be nice because he wants something and he is not in a position to FORCE you to agree.  So please drop this special consideration you're giving him right now.  

 

 

 

 

Thanks for this Lisa! i really appreciate it. I'm a really young expat and still learning alot of things. He is pretending to be nice. He actually cannot find a reason to fire me I think? This is one of the few times that he talked to an employee that he wants to fire.

I have passed my probation period and would be here for more than 1 1/2 years. I witnessed people who got fired during their probation and he wasn't the one who talks to them, he usually ask an associate to fire them. He didn't even cared. 

 

52 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

the very simple answer is: start a serious job search immediately but do not resign until you have a new contract (signed!)

 

Note also that he is not doing you a favor by offering to give you a Zeugnis, he is required to give you one by law.  And it has to be at least minimally flattering.  I do suggest you lay on the "nice" face from your side as well and get a zeugnis asap.  HAVE A GERMAN SPEAKER REVIEW IT! 

 

 

I am looking for a new job since 2 months ago, I really don't see myself growing here. It's just that I wanted to stay here until end of this year bec. I want to fix my permanent residence. I think I would secure first a Zeugnis, then do my move of try to extend my resignation period since nothing is written and signed yet. 

 

At the end of our conv. I said that, I am still willing to improve myself and would still commit 100% to the company. I did this professionally and in a nice way. He brought one of the associates inside our talk, maybe just to be a witness..she didn't said anything and I felt hot sorry she was for me. :/

 

28 minutes ago, Namu said:

 

No, don't quit! I think your boss asked you nicely because he probably has no real grounds to fire you. So all he is trying to do is to lower the Abfindung he might have to pay to you. However, things will get nasty. 

 

I can also do this, but I'm always afraid that things might really get worst. The only thing I love in this working environment is all of my awesome colleagues. So if I play the card of staying until getting fired, wouldn't that affect me negatively? or is it just because I am young and I have to experience these things?

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Namu is not suggesting you stay til you get fired, s/he is simply describing the likely motivation of the boss.  Read the rest!

 

I have to also wonder - it might not be the best strategy to try to use a zeugnis from the current job to find a new one.  It's pretty abnormal to be able to provide a zeugnis while you still have your current job unless it's a Zwischenzeugnis (usually entitled to those before your immediate boss quits...probably other scenarios too)

 

Does anyone have any experience with or thoughts on submitting a zeugnis from your current job WITH your application?   

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55 minutes ago, bbogdanmircea said:

In your place I would give in my notice until the end of the month and start looking for jobs.

3 months should be plenty to find a job.

Really bad advice. Please refrain from giving advice.

 

52 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

if I come over will you lay down so I can kick you a few times?

Are you sure they won't like it? :D

1 hour ago, lisa13 said:

the very simple answer is: start a serious job search immediately but do not resign until you have a new contract

Do exactly this.

14 minutes ago, wanderboy said:

HAVE A GERMAN SPEAKER REVIEW IT

The only thing I would add here, is to have a German speaker familiar with the coded wording they tend to use, review it. I believe there are several threads on here like this one I found on short notice, that might help.

 

Just out of curiousity, what line of work are you in? And how good is your German?

 

Good luck.

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11 minutes ago, generalmartok said:

Are you sure they won't like it? :D

 

 

hahahahahaha - indeed, this is always a risk, isn't it?

 

eta: actually that could be a defense strategy in some cases.  When I was in high school there was one really awful kid who bullied everyone.  When he did it to me, I started pretending it was GREAT...I would go out of my way to say hello and act like we were friends...acted like I liked him just a little too much

 

And it freakin worked.  It was hell to pull of but it worked.  He started actively retreating when he'd see me coming.

 

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2 hours ago, wanderboy said:

I already planned to resign from this company,

 

Facts are, you dont want to be there and apparently they dont want you either.  Regardless of what a works council or lawyers might say the long and the short of it seems to be thats its best all round if you do actually leave.

 

1 hour ago, AnswerToLife42 said:

Take the recommendation letter and look for a new job. Since your are still in good terms and if you show that you are actively looking for a new job the 3 months are not written in stone.

No lawyers or similar stuff. They will only make your future difficult.

Remember: You always meet twice in life!

 

Exactly correct.

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11 minutes ago, zwiebelfisch said:

 

Facts are, you dont want to be there and apparently they dont want you either.  Regardless of what a works council or lawyers might say the long and the short of it seems to be thats its best all round if you do actually leave.

 

 

Exactly correct.

 

do you have any feedback on my question about how remarkable it might be to submit a zeugnis from a *current* job when applying for a new one?  

 

Does that strike HR/hiring managers as weird in your experience?

 

 

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18 minutes ago, zwiebelfisch said:

 

Facts are, you dont want to be there and apparently they dont want you either.  Regardless of what a works council or lawyers might say the long and the short of it seems to be thats its best all round if you do actually leave.

 

 

Exactly correct.

Yes..exactly right. It was just the timing. I didn't expect he would want me out first. 

Anyhow, I would really take the opportunity of taking the zeugnis.

 

5 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

 

do you have any feedback on my question about how remarkable it might be to submit a zeugnis from a *current* job when applying for a new one?  

 

Does that strike HR/hiring managers as weird in your experience?

 

Back to Lisa's querry..so having a zeugnis with the yurrent employer, isn't that a bit weird?

I can also say that we had a good working relationship or whatsoever?

 

Thanks for all your feedback and advise. I'm almost certain that I would avoid the lawyer stuff unless something really worst happens. 

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8 minutes ago, lisa13 said:

 

do you have any feedback on my question about how remarkable it might be to submit a zeugnis from a *current* job when applying for a new one?  

 

Does that strike HR/hiring managers as weird in your experience?

 

It is possible (and not that out of the ordinary) to ask for a Zwischenzeugnis while still employed.

 

It is also better to apply for new jobs while still employed.

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11 minutes ago, engelchen said:

It is also better to apply for new jobs while still employed.

 

right, but I don't think most employers expect you to have a zeugnis from your current job when you are applying.  

 

as above, I think a zwischenzeugnis is better, too, for the application phase.  then get a normal one later.

 

 

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I dont know for sure how other companies view zwischenzeugnisse but in my experience they are not expected, so unless its likely to be absolutely glowing I wouldnt bother asking for one.

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Also another thing, make sure you have a legal insurance, or make one asap.

They usually have a freeze time of 3 months, so if things get nasty in less than 3 months it will be useless.

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24 minutes ago, bbogdanmircea said:

Also another thing, make sure you have a legal insurance, or make one asap.

They usually have a freeze time of 3 months, so if things get nasty in less than 3 months it will be useless.

It seems many insurances have a wait period when you join, and an existing problem may not be covered. 

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20 hours ago, RedMidge said:

How long have you worked for this company? Are you still in Probezeit? ( Maybe I missed these points?)

I already passed probezeit and been in my company for nearly more than 1 1/2 years. Obviously, my director just can't find a reason. He just said that maybe the projects are too big for me. :/

16 hours ago, RedMidge said:

It seems many insurances have a wait period when you join, and an existing problem may not be covered. 

hmmmm...I have to research about this. I currently don't have one, but I'll settle one this week just to be sure. 

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On 7/24/2019, 6:53:36, wanderboy said:

My boss just talked to me today and asked me nicely to resign or look for new opportunities in the next 3 months.

On 7/24/2019, 6:53:36, wanderboy said:

I already planned to resign from this company, but further than the date that he gave.

On 7/24/2019, 8:40:56, wanderboy said:

I am looking for a new job since 2 months ago

 

If my arithmetic is correct, you will have/had five months of a job search.

 

You can make your boss the bad guy, but it sounds like he has been dissatisfied with your work for some time and so have you.

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