The future of English football

[Johnny English 3,071]

Bundesliga produces quite good players?

 

 

Rulings

For the 2006–07 season, the limits on foreign (non-EU) players were lifted, based on a decision of the German Football Association (DFB) and Deutsche Fußball Liga made on 21 December 2005. At the same time, the UEFA local player ruling was introduced. This ruling stipulates, that a certain number of locally produced players must be enrolled at each club. For the 2006–07 season, this was at least four such players, for the 2007–08 season six players and for the 2008–09 season eight such players.

 

A locally produced player is a player who, during the age of 15–21 years, was licenced to play for the club for three different seasons or years.^[1]

 

 

[bramble 9,569]

 

Because Scotland and Wales have their own teams!

 

Yes, but why? It doesn't seem fair to other countries, that Britain can enter several "national" teams and they only one.

[toBnruG 1,127]

 

Yes, but why? It doesn't seem fair to other countries, that Britain can enter several "national" teams and they only one.

 

The reason is that England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are individual countries and the World Cup is a competition between countries. Hey, I'd like to see a European super team too, but I don't suppose anybody would like to play against them... oh hang on, didn't I just describe FC Bayern München?

 

As for having higher proportions of English in the Premier league squads, I don't agree at all. As long as every national team player is first-pick in their league squad then they're playing at the top of their game week-in week-out. I feel sorry for the nations whos biggest stars spend every weekend sat on the bench at the likes of Man City, Bayern München and the likes.

 

No excuses for English squad, just ill-prepared and not good enough.

[Keleth 9,253]

 

You're right... he was an even bigger star in Holland!

 

He played 110 times for Ajax scoring 81 goals

He has also played 110 times for Liverpool scoring 69 goals

 

He was not a star on the world stage though before Liverpool.

His most famous international play was handballing the goal for Uruguay against Ghana in 2010.

Plus I said he was a star in Holland but not the quality of player he is now.

 

 

Ahh, you might argue but the PL is so much better, harder, faster, more entertaining and I'd probably agree with you. But somehow the Dutch have a team that are currently better, harder, faster and more entertaining (I would say!) than their English equivalents... so it's not down to the quality of the league...

What this has to do with Suarez being a star I have absolutely no idea.

[Gwaptiva 7,116]

Dutch league football is obviously a long way behind the English Premier League (and behind the Bundesliga etc). But I don't think many people in the Netherlands think that it is the job of the league to produce players for the national team. And damn right too.

 

It's fun when it happens, but I couldn't care less about Oranje when it would mean Feyenoord has to lose out. Club over country any day of the week

[Johnny English 3,071]

You would *think* that the English Premier League with only 30% British players would be a fantastic training ground for our players...to learn from the other 70% of top players imported from around the world and to compete every week at the top level.

 

Clearly not....

[Hazza 5,458]

I would have thought that too.

 

Just over 32% of the players in the premier league are English.

 

That means there are 70 English players involved in every round of the PL. These guys are playing with and against the top talent in the world, and they must be learning something from them. I would suggest that this is a far better training ground than if they were to take a bunch of foreign players out and replace them with English players who are currently playing in the Championship - which is what must then occur.

 

I also think that switching and changing clubs on a regular basis should be beneficial, rather than detrimental to a player. A player who's been with the same club for 15 years must be less adaptable than one who has played with different squads, different managers and different game-plans.

 

It's also not the case that youth players get "squeezed out". Yes, they probably have a harder time breaking into a premier league team, but I would have thought that it would be better for them to get experience and confidence in a lower division. If they are good enough, they'll be bought and get their chance in the top flight.

 

I would suggest that the problem lies elsewhere. With the selection policy and the management. If you can't find 15 good players from a choice of 70 who are playing with and against the best in the world, and get something out of them, then there's something wrong. I suspect that there's also a weight of expectation on the players that few other teams have, that causes them to play conservatively and without any imagination.

 

The OP talked about Suarez learning his trade in the Premier league and then using that to beat England - well is there any reason why he can learn and an English player can't?

[Sampa 99]

Suarez became a star in England, so did Ronaldo, Henry and many other gerat players. But the development that matters happens much earlier. Müller, Lahm, Scweinsteiger all joined Bayern Munich around age 10, same with Götze at BVB etc. I don't think there is a single English team doing that kind of development, or with that sort of home grown team core.

 

Part of the problem is probably that the Premier League and the FA are separate in England, and the clubs don't see developing English players as their responsibility. In Germany it is all under the auspices of the DFB, which ensures that the clubs have to keep an eye on the health on German football in general.

 

I don't really believe that the England team suffer more than others because of the weight of expectation - no German or Brazilian team ever goes to WC expected to do anything other than win it.

[eucomis1 110]

England aren't out yet. If they make it through to the playoffs, a good kicking in the group might be just the thing that the coach couldn't provide - a bit of motivation to actually fight. That's what I believe they lacked.

 

What I noticed in the game was a Uruguayan player having the ball taken off him, falling over in the process, scrambling to get up and taking back possession of the ball, falling over again, getting up and winning the ball yet again. Wish I could find a video clip of it somewhere.

 

What England need to do is to stop focusing on winning the world cup, and start focusing on winning the next tackle. And the next one, and the next one...

[Gwaptiva 7,116]

 

Part of the problem is probably that the Premier League and the FA are separate in England, and the clubs don't see developing English players as their responsibility. In Germany it is all under the auspices of the DFB, which ensures that the clubs have to keep an eye on the health on German football in general.

 

As I said before, it's structure, it's the reliance on schools for talent... Dunno about England, but in Scotland there are four separate organisations involved in youth development... not helpful at all.

[fuzzytony 4,969]

 

England aren't out yet.

Now they are. :lol:

[Hazza 5,458]

 

Suarez became a star in England, so did Ronaldo, Henry and many other gerat players. But the development that matters happens much earlier. Müller, Lahm, Scweinsteiger all joined Bayern Munich around age 10, same with Götze at BVB etc. I don't think there is a single English team doing that kind of development, or with that sort of home grown team core.

 

So it's a problem with a very easy solution then. Give clubs a financial incentive for developing home-grown players, with a further bonus for every player who makes the national side at some point in the future.

 

Do Brazil, Argentina or even Spain or Portugal really have a better development set-up than England does for junior players?

[fuzzytony 4,969]

 

It's deeply satisfying to watch England lose at sport! Can't wait to watch the ABs beat them at rugby on Saturday

Which they naturally did.

 

New Zealand whitewash.

[chris999 1,202]

I wonder why the Kiwis, Canadians, Scots etc. can only cheer at the exit of England ...

 

oh yes of course ... they didn't have (and rarely do have) a team at the world cup to cheer for... so they can only be negative!!!

 

(maybe they should all get greenies to match their obvious complexions)

[black1 1,696]

I agree with Bramble, if Germany can play as one team, so could the UK. Bayern could easily play as a separate team to Germany if it wanted, just as Scotland does, and its union was much later, it was a separate kingdom until much more recently, but they don't play like that, they have a sense of 'German-ness' before 'Bayern-ness'. I understand national pride, heck I come from Cornwall which also views itself as distinct from the UK and I usually vote Mebyon Kernow, the Cornish Nationalist party, but after I have lived abroad for so long the UK seems like a strange place with its hatreds and refusals to come together.

 

Germany plays as one country, all together with passion and vigour and to win. The England team seemed to me to be listless and passionless and it seemed like it was enough to them that they were there and that it all didn't really matter, there was no burning desire to wipe the other team that I could see. A massive contrast with the Netherlands match I saw recently. I personally find football absolutely tedious, there just isn't enough senseless violence, but my little daughter does support England and I find it quite hard to explain to her that England had no chance as always and that once again she was probably going to have to switch her allegiance to Germany after a short while, which is exactly what happened. Clearly there are some major problems with English football but I don't think that it's anything that the clubs or the separate parts of the UK will sit down to change.

[ale3982 264]

 

I wonder why the Kiwis, Canadians, Scots etc. can only cheer at the exit of England ...

 

Totally unfair. The Canadians were watching hockey until 10 days ago. Sports starts again in September for pre-season. Except for the occassional CFL game and, of course, the Grey Cup.

 

What did England exit from again?

[bramble 9,569]

I'm glad someone agrees with me. Wouldn't the Union Jack signal more togetherness and whip up more fervour and support amongst Brits than just the English flag?

[Hazza 5,458]

It seems to at the Olympics...

[Chocky 1,222]

 

Now they are.

 

 

 

the UK seems like a strange place with its hatreds and refusals to come together.

 

fuzzytony providing a prime example there of the petty (Scots or Welsh?) bitterness that still festers in the UK today. My (Scots) aunt left her home country because she got so sick of listening to her fellow countrymen droning on about 'the English' and bawling out Flower of Scotland at every given opportunity. When the Scottish people vote no against independence in September I'll be knocking back a pint of London Pride in the nearest boozer in celebration.

 

The problem with the England team is down to the fact that the majority of players in the PL clubs are foreigners, there is no point in trying to ignore the fact that the English today, whether their family heritage lies in Lithuania, Lesotho or Lincolnshire no longer have a shared common national identity.

[Hazza 5,458]

 

The problem with the England team is down to the fact that the majority of players in the PL clubs are foreigners...

 

How is this a problem? The 70 odd that do play every week are playing with and against the best in the world instead of with players that would have to be brought out of the championship if there were less foreigners.