Smokers in Germany

125 posts in this topic

"I don't have a car, so I'm Mr. Good. All you others are evil for emitting carcinogenic particles into public space and should be made to suffer for that". And yet you call "crass" my statement that you're, let's say, a bit indifferent to the other's needs and wishes? Don't fall off that high horse of yours, mind.

 

Anyway, this discussion is not going anywhere. I'm a smoker, I have equal rights to use the public spaces to anyone else. When I was not smoking, I had no issue with smokers puffing away as long as it was not explicitly forbidden. I get (and got) equally pissed to see / feel someone smoking / having smoked in the stairwell or some other closed space where either a rule or common sense (common in the meaning of shared by smokers and non-smokers alike) say one shouldn't be smoking. Not because I believe smokers should be put away indefinitely, but because it's not supposed to be done.

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"I don't have a car, so I'm Mr. Good. All you others are evil for emitting carcinogenic particles into public space and should be made to suffer for that". And yet you call "crass" my statement that you're, let's say, a bit indifferent to the other's needs and wishes? Don't fall off that high horse of yours, mind.

 

You don't 'need' to smoke, any more than an alcoholic needs another drink or a junkie needs another fix. But I guess that is how the tobacco industry continues to survive, by peddling the myth to poor saps like you that their products are just part of a 'lifestyle'.

You carry on pal.

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because most of them are successful at deluding themselves entirely about the way in which a smoker dies (drawn out and painful, rather than unexpected and quick)

 

Jesus you talk bollocks sometimes.

Many non smokers die a drawn out and painful death and many smokers die a quick death.

I've lost 2 relatives to cancer neither of whom smoked and who's wife and husband didn't either.

My grandad died from a blood clot to the brain and took him about 30 secs to die even though he smoked and drank like a fish.

Ergo propter hoc as they say.

 

Smokers are more likely to get cancer and other diseases but that doesn't mean all of them will.

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Smokers are more likely to get cancer and other diseases but that doesn't mean all of them will.

 

You appear to be confusing anecdote with fact. True, smokers don't all get cancer, but they are much more likely to than non-smokers. Many of them die from pulmonary disease instead and have many more health problems during their lives. Besides, cancer is not the only method by which smokers can increase their chances of a drawn out painful death. Emphysema is a good bet too, for instance.

 

And it cannot only make you impotent, it can even increase your chances of cancer of the penis. Something else to think about when drawing down that cool refreshing lungful of carcinogens...!

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or I at least, was talking about improving levels of education so that people don't take up smoking.

 

There needs to be a massive shift in culture, as has been seen in CA. It's quite unusual now to see a smoker here. Germany should do what we do: teach the ills of smoking starting in primary schools. I can tell you, as the coordinator of this program at my son's school: when students saw a [real, preserved] black, and hole-ridilled lung from someone who died of emphysema [in his late 40s!], some kids nearly hurled. A few did, in fact, cry. It makes a lasting impression. I know, because I was shown one as well [at church] when I was a child, and I still remember it vividly, today.

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I've lost 2 relatives to cancer neither of whom smoked and who's wife and husband didn't either.

My grandad died from a blood clot to the brain and took him about 30 secs to die even though he smoked and drank like a fish.

Ergo propter hoc as they say.

 

Smokers are more likely to get cancer and other diseases but that doesn't mean all of them will.

 

Talk about a prime example of a smoker living in total denial.

I've heard other saps come out with nonsensical shit like that before - 'my grandad smoked from the age of 10 up until he died at 92, fit as a fiddle 'e was, gor blimey guvnor'.

 

 

Jesus you talk bollocks sometimes.

 

Yeah, it's me talking bollocks.

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You wouldn't believe the amount of times I see broken beer bottles on the ground ergo all beer drinkers think they're exempt from their obligation to use trash bins. Generalise much do you?

 

If yourkeau won't, I will.

 

The tram stop near my office. Or any tram or bus stop anywhere in Munich. Frikkin gross. Just makes the area look trashy. They (many of the smokers) suck in one last lung-full before stepping onto the tram, fling the still-burning cigarettes to the ground, and exhale inside the carriage. And I hold my breath til the cloud thins out because I am trying to cut down on my asthma medication dosage.

 

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I would never go so far as to say that all smokers have shite manners, but there's definitely some sort of correlation. My theory is that it's people with certain personality types who are more likely to take up smoking in the first place. If I smoked, I would carry a little pocket disposal device. Surely they exist.

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Fookin'ell, pizza guy. :blink: That is the only reason why, quite honestly [apart from my in-laws, HEH], I now have anxiety about visiting Europe. Sorry smokers, but that litter is disgusting. AND, I do not want to breathe your 2nd-hand smoke. I've already got enough problems...

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"I don't have a problem with the sunflower seed husks, they are 100% organic and bioedegradable."

 

What is this attitude and why?

 

http://www.polluteless.com/Tips_Tricks_Advice_Main.html

 

Do you do all those things?

 

Or are you you just a regular ranter living in a wrong area?

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I would never go so far as to say that all smokers have shite manners, but there's definitely some sort of correlation. My theory is that it's people with certain personality types who are more likely to take up smoking in the first place. If I smoked, I would carry a little pocket disposal device. Surely they exist.

 

You may be right,it is probably to do with people not thinking that butts are litter in the way paper etc is.

If you read my reply to Yorkeau you would see I do consider them litter in the same way paper etc is and I do carry them around with me.

You will get no argument from me there at all.

 

 

Talk about a prime example of a smoker living in total denial.

I've heard other saps come out with nonsensical shit like that before - 'my grandad smoked from the age of 10 up until he died at 92, fit as a fiddle 'e was, gor blimey guvnor'.

 

Yeah, it's me talking bollocks.

 

Yep it is.

I may die from whatever disease caused by smoking (any smoker who doesn't believe that is crazy) but show me the proof that all smokers are going to die from one.

Everything you do in life that could possibly harm you is bad for you but you take the chance that it won't happen to you.

 

 

There needs to be a massive shift in culture, as has been seen in CA. It's quite unusual now to see a smoker here. Germany should do what we do: teach the ills of smoking starting in primary schools. I can tell you, as the coordinator of this program at my son's school: when students saw a [real, preserved] black, and hole-ridilled lung from someone who died of emphysema [in his late 40s!], some kids nearly hurled. A few did, in fact, cry. It makes a lasting impression. I know, because I was shown one as well [at church] when I was a child, and I still remember it vividly, today.

 

One of the few people in this thread on either side of the argument who talks sense rather than just ranting.

When I started smoking I wasn't particularly aware of the many dangers of smoking and I think a lot of people my age weren't either.

We all know one of the main reasons that smoking isn't outlawed is because of the tremendous loss of revenue it would cause to the country.

I would like to see alcohol banned too but call me selfish I'm not willing to pay more taxes to make up for it and many non smokers probably feel the same about banning smoking.

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"I don't have a problem with the sunflower seed husks, they are 100% organic and bioedegradable."

 

What is this attitude and why?

 

http://www.polluteless.com/Tips_Tricks_Advice_Main.html

 

Do you do all those things?

 

Or are you you just a regular ranter living in a wrong area?

 

If by the 'area' I live in now, you mean the whole of Germany.. What is so hard for you people to understand? One type of litter, the cigarette butt, contains a ton of nasty chemicals and pollutants that leach in to the ground, and never breaks down in to organic material, the other, the sunflower seed husk will eventually break down in to compostable material. So the latter really isn't any worse than leafs from trees on the ground.

What the fuck is a 'regular ranter' anyway?

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This idea that people should be allowed to behave in ways which are self destructive, like smoking, or driving as fast as they want on parts of the Autobahn is nothing more than a hangover from the post war reaction against Nazism and the idea that self determination should allow these types of behaviours.

 

Basically, there is a point in holding up the right to self-determination, isn´t it? The question is simply where you should draw the line between this right and the rights of others. You could even argue that eating too much should be banned because obesity causes lots of costs for society (or any accident-prone sports like horseriding, skiing, flying microlights etc).

 

 

Where are the government anti-smoking campaigns? Or the Krankenkassen anti-smoking campaigns? Have to say I havent seen any.

 

Actually there are some. I remember big placards telling about the danghers of smoking. And have you ever had a look at a cigarette box? It states things like "smoking can make you impotent, can kill you etc." in bold letters.

 

 

There needs to be a massive shift in culture, as has been seen in CA. ... Germany should do what we do: teach the ills of smoking starting in primary schools. I can tell you, as the coordinator of this program at my son's school: when students saw a [real, preserved] black, and hole-ridilled lung from someone who died of emphysema [in his late 40s!], some kids nearly hurled. A few did, in fact, cry. It makes a lasting impression. I know, because I was shown one as well [at church] when I was a child, and I still remember it vividly, today.

 

I had never thought I would have to agree with mlovett, but here I have to. It´s at early childhood level where you have to start. Once kids are teenagers you are much less likely to change their perceptions. But you´ll probably meet some resistance from smoking parents who might not want their behaviours challenged by their toddlers. And from kindergarten-teachers who claim it would be too traumatising for toddlers to be made aware of such dangers (that was my experience when I suggested something similiar).

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If I smoked, I would carry a little pocket disposal device. Surely they exist.

 

Certainly they do. Portable ashtrays. My daughter carries one around with her. She bought it for a couple of Euros in the local tobacco shop.

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Certainly they do. Portable ashtrays. My daughter carries one around with her. She bought it for a couple of Euros in the local tobacco shop.

 

Maybe this would be a good marketing idea for promotional gifts?

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There needs to be a massive shift in culture, as has been seen in CA. It's quite unusual now to see a smoker here. Germany should do what we do: teach the ills of smoking starting in primary schools. I can tell you, as the coordinator of this program at my son's school: when students saw a [real, preserved] black, and hole-ridilled lung from someone who died of emphysema [in his late 40s!], some kids nearly hurled. A few did, in fact, cry. It makes a lasting impression. I know, because I was shown one as well [at church] when I was a child, and I still remember it vividly, today.

 

I agree. But the experience has to be really traumatic, I think.

 

My granddaughter now 14 always hated her mother smoking. She thought it was disgusting and said, that she'd never ever smoke. But recently I caught her smoking in the park with a group of other youngsters. Peer pressure is more influencing than anything responsible adults say.

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There needs to be a massive shift in culture, as has been seen in CA. It's quite unusual now to see a smoker here.

 

In my opinion, smoking was stigmatized in the 1990s in the Seattle area. To a lesser degree, consumption of fast food was also looked down upon. To indulge in either one, given the massive amounts of evidence demonstrating the consequences to health, was considered a sign of ignorance. I found that well educated people in the Seattle area generally did not smoke and found it repulsive.

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Interesting topic and good idea for a thread. I too am baffled almost daily with the degree to which smoking is ingrained in the culture here. I am also an ex-smoker and old enough to remember the changing attitudes in the 90s in the UK, so it really is like stepping into a time warp here.

 

One thing that amazed me a few years back was covering sollen and use of imperative language in the German language VHS. Some of the examples were related to general fitness, including smoking and recommendations from the doctor and/or friends when the "character" in the course book had a bad chest cough. The general advice given, and OK this is just course material - but I'm inclined to believe it mirrors the cultural attitude here, was:

 

Rauchen Sie nicht so viel / rauch nicht so viel.

(Don't smoke so much)

 

I was gobsmacked, surely that should be stop smoking completely - especially coming from a doctor! :blink: I was the only one in the class that was shocked by this, however, so it seems many countries didn't take the approach the US and UK took with regard to educating the masses on the dangers of smoking back in the 80s/90s.

 

With regards to the mess and the smell, I think this is a different topic - there are plenty of non-smokers that are filthy fuckers with no respect for others or their local environment. Just look at the rubbish strewn all over Frankfurt city centre, anyone that lives here. Disgusting.

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the approach the US and UK took with regard to educating the masses on the dangers of smoking back in the 80s/90s./quote]

Interestingly, these OECD statistics show that there are even more people who smoke every day in the UK than in Germany. The rate is a little lower in the USA but after all the shock and surprise about German smoking habits I would have expected both US and UK rates to be a lot lower!

At my workplace, out of 65 staff only 4 people smoke.

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