Smokers in Germany

125 posts in this topic

Think it maybe also down to rebellion against the anti smoking policies in the past.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tobacco_movement_in_Nazi_Germany

 

http://www.smokefreeliving.net/organizations-reducing-smokers/anti-tobacco-movement-in-nazigermany.html

 

Since then, anti smoking is kind of a taboo. Perverse in a weird kind of way... :blink:

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When I find the time, I intend to start an e-petition to ban cigarette advertising and get rid of on street vending machines. Will it make any difference? probably not, but I want to see these things happen, and I can't see another way of encouraging this.

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If you want persecution of smokers, go to the US or the UK or whatever allegedly freedom-loving place suits your level of bigotry.

 

Hyperbole much? It's pretty reasonable for someone who wouldn't normally choose to inhale carcinogenic smoke to object to having it blown in their face, or to have to walk through clouds of it in public spaces. Expecting better levels of education and awareness about what a ridiculous f***ing habit smoking is in a developed country like Germany is nothing like 'persecution'.

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Hyperbole much? It's pretty reasonable for someone who wouldn't normally choose to inhale carcinogenic smoke to object to having it blown in their face, or to have to walk through clouds of it in public spaces. Expecting better levels of education and awareness about what a ridiculous f***ing habit smoking is in a developed country like Germany is nothing like 'persecution'.

 

Oh so I take your daily walks are just in parks, far far away from any road used by cars? Or that you live in a city with no industry? Let's not forget, do you eat grilled meat by any chance? And let's not even wonder many of the things you may be using generated "carcinogenic smoke" inhaled by other people.

I find it hypocritical to blame smokers for all the evils in the world, yet happily go along with whatever else suits their needs and purposes.

 

As for myself: smoker for 13 years, quit for 2, started again for 1, quit again for one month, started again. Am I harming myself? Probably. Am I harming others? No more than the average BMW 5-er driver putting out nice little black clouds every time he's flooring it. I do know better than turning my living room into a pub or smoking next to babies, though.

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Oh so I take your daily walks are just in parks, far far away from any road used by cars? Or that you live in a city with no industry? Let's not forget, do you eat grilled meat by any chance? And let's not even wonder many of the things you may be using generated "carcinogenic smoke" inhaled by other people.

 

There are regulations in place in Germany to prevent people being exposed to concentrated emissions of smoke and gases from manufacturing plants or car exhausts, and if I want to eat grilled meat (can't remember the last time I did, but anyway..) the impact of that on anyone would be negligble.

Non smokers don't get any protection from second hand smoke outside every public place in Germany.

Anyway exhaust emissions from modern cars are pretty harmless compared to the shit that comes off a lit cigarette.

 

BTW I'm sure the irony of your username is not lost on most people ;)

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Wonder which group of people will be the next victim once the international league of bigot zealots are through with smokers.

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the air must be nice and fresh way up on that high horse chocky

 

Dafuq are you talking about? Apart from the odd fart, I don't have any habits which affect other peoples right to breathe clean air. (And no, I don't have a car.)

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Oh so I take your daily walks are just in parks, far far away from any road used by cars? Or that you live in a city with no industry? Let's not forget, do you eat grilled meat by any chance? And let's not even wonder many of the things you may be using generated "carcinogenic smoke" inhaled by other people.

I find it hypocritical to blame smokers for all the evils in the world, yet happily go along with whatever else suits their needs and purposes.

...

 

I never really understand the arguments stating "this is bad but that is even worse for you, do you do that?" comparing one perceived wrong with another perceived wrong is stupid, your arguments should stand on their own merits, or not!

 

 

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The litter is another issue I simply don’t understand. It’s almost as if smokers don’t view cigarette butts as litter. Especially on train platforms and at bus/tram stops. Typically the last act before boarding is to take one last drag, leaving fellow boarding passengers in a cloud of smoke, followed by tossing the remaining cigarette on the ground…regardless of the proximity of cigarette receptacles. It like if I was standing there drinking some take away coffee, took one last sip, broke wind in the general direction of my fellow passengers, and then threw the cup on the ground. That would be perceived as uncouth, anti social, un-Burgerlich; why are cigarettes different?

...

 

I fully agree here with the exception that I think that smokers just don't care, for the most part, where they throw their butts. I see it as they are challenging you (the general public) to criticise them for it or that they genuinely don't see it is an issue because somebody is being kept in employment picking up after them. I know that smokers do not throw butts wantonly when they are at their own home or in someone else's home, they are also considerate around others who are not smokers, therefore they are aware of what they are doing and must just not care when they are out and about in public.

 

This may sound like I'm stoking an argument but honestly I'm not I just can't find the words at the moment to put things more delicately, I'm having a not good day ... :(

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Chocky, is your problem with smokers or just with arseholes??

 

I smoke. Have done for a while. It is a love hate relationship I have with the habit, but I am not an arsehole. Inconsiderate people couldn't give a toss about how their actions impact on you. That's not a smokers' character trait, that is just selfish, ignorant and anti-social behaviour.

 

I always make a conscious effort to smoke where my habit has the least impact on others. Yes that means that if I want a smoke but its raining I have two choices at the bus shelter, 1) looks like your about to get wet trueblue, or 2) You can wait for that smoke trueblue, it won't kill you to not have one..

 

Do you see my point?

 

Now if the government say, for the health and benefits of all non smokers, smoking in public places is banned except for designated areas, well that is just something that I will cop on the chin and carry on. If you have a problem with an individual then grow a pair and say something, but don't go putting us all in a box, coz I don't fit.

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I know people enjoy smoking, but it is an addiction, plain and simple.

 

Yet funnily enough it is not regarded as one by non smokers.

Write a post on here calling alcoholics dirty scumbags and see the amount of posts replying "it's an illness they need treatment etc".

Write one on here calling smokers dirty scumbags and you get "yep".

 

Despite doctors keep telling us to give up smoking if I go to a doctor and tell him I want to give up I'll get a few pamphlets and be told to buy patches,gum or whatever at the apotheke.

If I go and tell him I'm an alcoholic then look at the completely different way I am treated and what I am entitled to.

 

At work if you come to work drunk or are caught drinking you are sent home and the 2nd time you are forced to go the the betriebsarzt who if he thinks it is warranted will send you to rehab or some form of help group.

If you get caught smoking it is an instant sackable offence (no nothing flammable etc around).

 

Why is smoking not perceived like an addiction the same as drugs (which it basically is) and alcohol?

 

There are times I enjoy smoking other times I smoke purely to kill the craving.I have tried to give up many times and have always restarted.

Yet according to some people I am "egoistic and childish" because I smoke and people wonder why some smokers resort to insults etc when challenged.

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Both are addictions, keleth, you're absolutely right. But the difference - as far as social perceptions go - is that drinking renders you incapable of doing your job pretty quickly (unless you're a very high-functioning alcoholic) and thus has immediate consequences (in any case, it makes you drunk), wheres the effects of smoking take rather longer to manifest themselves. Nicotine is addictive, but as an intoxicant, it doesn't really register. The substances are used in very different ways and in very different contexts. By the same token, I find it quite easy to limit myself to a glass or two of wine a night. Why? Because I don't like feeling too drunk to read or even follow a TV programme, and I don't like being hungover. When I smoked, on the other hand, I found it much harder not to light up all the time, because I could do so without in any way jeopardizing my ability to get through the rest of day. Other people, of course, may have very different experiences.

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Chocky, is your problem with smokers or just with arseholes??

 

In our town there is a long, pedestrianised street that runs right through the centre, it is purely a commercial area, with only a few residential streets leading off it. At some point, the local government must have realised that because people in the region have a lot of disposable income, it would make sense to line the entire length of the street with shops and chain stores. The thing is, the street is relatively narrow, with tall buildings lining it, and with only the occasional side streets leading off it, so walking along it without breathing in the second hand smoke of about 20 people simultaneously is impossible - on an average Saturday, you will never see a clear patch of pavement - but because this street is 'outside', smokers can stroll around polluting the air, ignoring (wilfully or otherwise) the fact that there are children, elderly people and others who shouldn't be breathing in cigarette smoke.

My point is that even in Germany, smokers accept that they can't smoke in government buildings, or airports, or train station concourses, becuase it is a stinking, anti-social habit, plus, bans on smoking in those places also forces those smokers to question if they really need to carry on with their habit, because most of them are successful at deluding themselves entirely about the way in which a smoker dies (drawn out and painful, rather than unexpected and quick)

 

So, no it's not just my problem with 'arseholes', it's that many smokers, including yourself, are aware that it is a stupid, dangerous habit, but continue to do it anyway, and make up excuses about why it's ok to subject other people to your stench. This thread was started because Germany, as a western nation, with a high level of education and a strong economy, has a problem, and that problem is smoking.

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I think the difference is between considerate and inconsiderate smokers.

 

My son has tried several times to kick the habit, but again and again he succumbs to the habit. My daughter has never tried, she knows she'll never succeed. Different nervous dispositions, it seems.

 

Though they are what I (non-smoker) conceive as considerate smokers. Butts are not tossed on the ground, they are saved to be disposed of in the next bin. In my home (and their own homes) they smoke on the patio and they use the ashtrays I provide, etc.

 

The problem, I think, is that most smokers start young as teenagers, when they feel they want to belong to the crowd, and smoking (and drinking) is perceived as a must.

 

Tobacco it seems has for most people more addictable consequences than drink. Both my kids started smoking at a young age and have remained addicted. They also experienced their first contact with alcohol at about the same time, but are not addicted to drink. This is true for most people I know.

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I think the difference is between considerate and inconsiderate smokers.

 

Maybe every urban area should have signposts designating zones for considerate and inconsiderate smokers? I wonder how quickly the one for inconsiderate smokers would fill up?

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Sometimes I marvel at the sang froid with which people puff away in the situations you mention - bus stops, train platforms, halfway up the bleeding escalator out of the U-Bahn - but personally, I find it to be more of a minor annoyance. It doesn't make my clothes stink, it's not like I can't breathe, the amount of smoke I'm passively forced to inhale is probably altogether negligible. Can we just accept that some people think it's less of a big deal than others? With the exception of the odd Raucherkneipe, smokers have been pretty much shut out of all indoor spaces. As long as smoking remains legal, I think we've gone far enough in limiting the space for smokers. You clearly don't, I understand. As far as public health campaigns go, however, I would agree with you. Banning cigarette advertising would be a logical next step.

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I don't have any habits which affect other peoples right to breathe clean air. (And no, I don't have a car.)

 

"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—

And there was no one left to speak for me".

 

Are you a vegan, maybe? A rocker? A jeans fan? A bus rider? And so on. Be on the watch for the next self-righteous crusade, you might fall prey to it. But the smokers might say "why the hell should I care, I'm not a vegan/rocker/jeans wearer like Chocky is".

My point is - be more tolerant to other people's vices. Nobody is breaking into your living room and filling it up with smoke.

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"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—

Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—

And there was no one left to speak for

 

Seriously? Are you seriously going to use that in this debate? How unbelievably crass of you.

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