Smokers in Germany

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And all of that is why I think I can never live in America or any other Puritanical society again. I have become way too spoiled by the peculiar way in which Germans mind their own business which allows you much more personal freedom than in some other places.

 

But America is an extreme example, as always. Anyway, I absolutely contest the idea that smoking is a personal choice that has no effect on others therefore-it's-got-nothing-to-do-with-anyone-else line of reasoning. It makes the environment in a lot of urban areas that unpleasant that that argument is just not valid.

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I'm not going to argue that last point with you, for a host of reasons up to and including the obscene number of vehicles operating with combustion engines (here and anywhere), but you seemed most puzzled as to why people smoke and how on earth it can be that there are no "Uncle Fritz wants YOU--to quit smoking right this instant" posters everywhere. I offered an explanation for that.

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there are no "Uncle Fritz wants YOU--to quit smoking right this instant" posters everywhere. I offered an explanation for that.

 

That's not actually what I said though is it? I was referring to the generally low levels of education about the dangers of smoking, and I'm not saying that German smokers are not aware of the dangers of their habit, but they might just need to be reminded of the fact that every time they light up, they are effectively reducing their life span.

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Given that life expectancy in Germany is one of the highest in the world

 

Err, why do you think 24th place ranks as 'one of the highest in the world', with Israel at 15th?

Your understanding of statistics looks a bit shaky I'm afraid, smokers are more likely to contract cancer than non-smokers, cancer is one of big killers in the world today. According to the WHO tobacco use is responsible for the death of 1 in 10 adults worldwide.

 

Plus you seem to be ignoring smoking related diseases that are not directly fatal but severely impact on quality of life, like emphysema, cardiovascular disease, lung disease, increased risk of stroke etc..

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Gotta agree with Chocky here to a certain extent. In Berlin at least the rules with regards to smoking are widely flouted. Stand on just about ANY S Bahn/U Bahn platform and you'll see someone smoking within a few minutes, even though it is prohibited. To be honest I have problem with smoking in underground stations because it was a match from a cigarette that started the King's Cross Fire from which it seems Germany learned no lessons (you won't last 2 minutes on London Underground with a cigarette before someone will tell you to put it out).

 

I don't have a problem in principle with people smoking on outdoor platforms IF they go to one end and keep their distance from others just waiting for a train BUT what invariably happens is that they actually sit on the bloody benches, making them unusable for anyone who doesn't want to inhale 100 carcinogens with every breath. I bring my son to Kita every day on the train and even around little children these people (obviously not all smokers!) don't even notice their smoke wafting towards his buggy. You even see these assholes smoking in bus shelters when it's raining...beggars belief.

 

I also experience the following DAILY:

Get off the train at Sonnenallee and walk through covered bridge (completely enclosed) to cross the main road. Some twat will always light up in that bridge and it'll be right in front of me and I'll get a nice waft of his/her/it's smoke. Inconsiderate fucks the lot of them (the ones that do that shit, not all smokers).

 

The butts problem also ranks up there with the sunflower seeds problem that is prolific in Neukölln. It's like these people don't even see that crap as litter.

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The butts problem also ranks up there with the sunflower seeds problem that is prolific in Neukölln. It's like these people don't even see that crap as litter.

 

I don't have a problem with the sunflower seed husks, they are 100% organic and bioedegradable. Conversely, 4 trillion cigarette butts are dumped globally each year, and there is plenty of research to prove that the chemicals that leach out of them once they are on the ground are a threat to groundwater equal to any other release of toxic chemicals in to the environment.

http://www.tobaccofreeca.com/smoking-problem/impact/environment/

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But America is an extreme example, as always. Anyway, I absolutely contest the idea that smoking is a personal choice that has no effect on others therefore-it's-got-nothing-to-do-with-anyone-else line of reasoning. It makes the environment in a lot of urban areas that unpleasant that that argument is just not valid.

 

I was trying not to give a knee-jerk reaction to this such as to get defensive and/or accuse you of anti-Americanism again, but honestly--America is an extreme example of Puritanism? Really? More extreme than basically the entire Asian continent including Russia? More extreme than the entire Muslim world? More extreme than Australia, Ireland (North as well as uh... "regular") and much of England? More extreme than almost all of the African continent? When it comes to the morality police America is far from sitting on a monopoly and a fair cry more socially permissive than literally most of the world, especially any place that has laws about what women can wear in public, who is allowed to be taught to read and write, whose fault adultery and rape is and actively punishes its gays with the death penalty. I know that's not your main point here but once again you must get a grip before making certain seriously ridiculous remarks.

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and if you've seen how many Israelites smoke... Almost everyone and non-stop, but their life expectancy is surprisingly higher than in Germany.

I have no idea how you managed to pick the Israelis as a comparison, but for what it is worth here are the numbers:

 

Latest figures on smoking in Israel (from the Ministry of Health, 2012) state that numbers of adult smokers have been dropping since the '70s, and now stand at 20.6% of the adult (over 21) population. These numbers vary wildly based on gender and ethnicity - 40.3% of Arab men smoke, 6.7% of the Arab women, 23.7% of the Jewish men, and 15.9% of the Jewish women. It is unclear is "smoking" includes hookah pipes in the numbers.

 

The OECD (2010) puts the percentage of male smokers in Israel at 24.9%, of Germany (tied with France) at 26.4%, and the OECD average between then in the chart at 25.9%. These are actually consecutive in the graph, so Israel is ranked 20th (starting from the lowest number of smokers), OECD average is 21 and Germany is 22. The women show a very different picture - Israel ranks 11th (12.6% of the women smoke), OECD average is ranked 22nd (16.76%), and Germany is 25th (17.6%)

 

Israel will be an interesting test case in the next decade since they started subsidizing programs to quit smoking in 2010. I have no idea how it is relevant at the moment. Now back to the discussion on smoking in Germany.

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I was trying not to give a knee-jerk reaction to this such as to get defensive and/or accuse you of anti-Americanism again, but honestly--America is an extreme example of Puritanism? Really? More extreme than basically the entire Asian continent including Russia? More extreme than the entire Muslim world? More extreme than Australia

 

You're blathering again. But good effort trying to counter my alleged anti Americanism with some xenophobia of your own.. stay classy dessa ;)

 

 

I know that's not your main point here but once again you must get a grip before making certain seriously ridiculous remarks.

 

ROFL

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Yeah but if your kid gets sunflower seeds on his/her hands, he/she doesn't risk blindness if some of it accidentally gets on his/her face.

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My problem with smokers is not smoke itself. It's annoying, but it's banned inside (bars, restaurants), so no problem for me. The biggest problem is littering. I can't understand why but smokers here somehow think they are exempt from obligation to use trash bin, so German streets are full of butts. That's very bad, so if anyone proposes to introduce Pfand for butts I will support that.

 

You wouldn't believe the amount of times I see broken beer bottles on the ground ergo all beer drinkers think they're exempt from their obligation to use trash bins.

Generalise much do you?

Actually in both these examples I'd say the severe lack of trash bins coupled with peoples laziness is the main reason for this.

 

 

I don't have a problem in principle with people smoking on outdoor platforms IF they go to one end and keep their distance from others just waiting for a train BUT what invariably happens is that they actually sit on the bloody benches, making them unusable for anyone who doesn't want to inhale 100 carcinogens with every breath.

 

OMG shoot the proles,how dare they actually want to sit on benches provided for fare paying passengers.

 

 

I don't have a problem with the sunflower seed husks, they are 100% organic and bioedegradable. Conversely, 4 trillion cigarette butts are dumped globally each year, and there is plenty of research to prove that the chemicals that leach out of them once they are on the ground are a threat to groundwater equal to any other release of toxic chemicals in to the environment.

 

Yer littering is fine when it's bio degradable litter :blink:

FFS litter is litter whatever it is,some more dangerous than other but no excuse to litter at all.

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Err, why do you think 24th place ranks as 'one of the highest in the world', with Israel at 15th?

Your understanding of statistics looks a bit shaky I'm afraid, smokers are more likely to contract cancer than non-smokers, cancer is one of big killers in the world today. According to the WHO tobacco use is responsible for the death of 1 in 10 adults worldwide.

 

Plus you seem to be ignoring smoking related diseases that are not directly fatal but severely impact on quality of life, like emphysema, cardiovascular disease, lung disease, increased risk of stroke etc..

 

Because there are about 180 countries in the world.

 

Not that I reject that smoking is bad for health, but I want to point out that non-smokers who drive to the shop around the corner have more chances to get overweight and get a lot of not so good diseases. Germans smoke, but they also run, hike, use bikes for commuting. This is more important for health.

 

 

You wouldn't believe the amount of times I see broken beer bottles on the ground ergo all beer drinkers think they're exempt from their obligation to use trash bins.

Generalise much do you?

 

I don't need to believe, I also live here and have seen that. But the amount of broken bottles is much lower than the amount of thrown butts, because only heavily drunken people do the former, but butts are thrown by conscious people who are not under influence of anything.

 

 

Actually in both these examples I'd say the severe lack of trash bins coupled with peoples laziness is the main reason for this.

 

Yes, cities which introduced street ashtrays are much cleaner, but this is not a solution: at the university campus of Bayreuth some buildings have ashtrays in front of them, they are more or less clean. Other buildings don't have ashtrays, are full of butts. How can I not to generalize? These are smart educated people, not some junkies.

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... German smokers ... need to be reminded of the fact that every time they light up, they are effectively reducing their life span.

 

Put like that, it's as if at a certain moment, as determined by a large number of factors, the smoker suddenly dies too soon, but "cleanly".

In practice, those who will ultimately "die from smoking" will beforehand suffer all manner of very unpleasant and debilitating symptoms until they die ... but you know this already:

 

 

... Plus you seem to be ignoring smoking related diseases that are not directly fatal but severely impact on quality of life, like emphysema, cardiovascular disease, lung disease, increased risk of stroke etc..

 

... I wish others would wake up to it, too.

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OMG shoot the proles,how dare they actually want to sit on benches provided for fare paying passengers.

Huh? My problem is not them sitting on the benches. It's with them sitting on the benches and smoking, thus preventing others from using said benches. Do you not see a problem with someone sitting at a bus stop in the pouring rain and smoking?

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I don't need to believe, I also live here and have seen that. But the amount of broken bottles is much lower than the amount of thrown butts, because only heavily drunken people do the former, but butts are thrown by conscious people who are not under influence of anything.

 

Stop it just fucking stop it.

Stop trying to make it that people who throw their butts on the floor are any worse or any more in control of their senses than people who leave bottles on the floor.

Are they also worse than people who let their dogs shit on the grass and leave it there or people who throw their McDonalds wrappers on the floor or any sort of rubbish?

 

 

Huh? My problem is not them sitting on the benches. It's with them sitting on the benches and smoking, thus preventing others from using said benches. Do you not see a problem with someone sitting at a bus stop in the pouring rain and smoking?

 

No your point is you do not like smokers (fair enough,your prerogative)and you are actively trying to witch hunt them for every thing they do.

I don't have a car (mainly because I don't need one not due to some environmental awareness thing) and I probably do a lot less damage to peoples health with my smoking than car drivers do but for some reason I don't hear you ranting on car drivers.

Do you drive?

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