Refusing to pay TV license fees (Rundfunkbeitrag)

1,366 posts in this topic

2 minutes ago, zwiebel said:

So yeah, you should have to pay taxes for these things.  

 

You were listening when your 3 year-old told you that. Good for you! :)

 

Did he/she also explain why your paywall idea is rubbish?

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I don't have my own kids but an extended family and I don't begrudge paying parents to raise my future workers.  

 

What I very much begrudge is people benefiting most from taxpayer largesse in support of whatever their personal life goal and / or situation - such as parents who raise their children for personal family benefit not for everyone else  - who then can't stop whining about having to pay for stuff themselves, even a mere 200 Euro a year.   The hypocrisy and greed is staggering and of course other people can clearly see it.  (Students getting their free education and asociated things like free transport and then complaining about having to pay health insurance are another one).

 

Take your transfer payments and free at point of use services for sure, but don't dare whinge about others who live differently getting theirs.

 

Quite a large part of the populace - mainly older - is quite reliant on TV.   That may well die with them - the average state TV viewer in my home nation is 61 - but it is a de facto state service with a lot of benefits.    When you look at many families with young kids getting six figure sums for their life choice, there is also probably an older relative parked in front of the TV for a lot of the time.   If nothing else, state TV is probably a highly effective means of supporting the more housebound.

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6 hours ago, Krieg said:

The TV licence in Germany has many flaws, but I can understand why it is like that, I guess it is the best they could came up with when you want an independent TV.

 

What independence?

 

First, the ARD / ZDF is lead by appointed political lobbyist. You will not find strong critics against the his/her party. 

Secondly, the state still "owns" the media. The only thing that is keeping "public" media alive is their government law. Remove that and they lose 90+ % of their income. When your income is fully dependent on a government shady law, you have no Independence. 

And lastly, when your income is fixed, regardless or your work quality or competition, most people will lose the motivation to improve and thrive. Hence the - at best - mediocre media reception. 

 

At the moment, German "public" media is the most expensive media on the planet

 

I don't think many people can argue that taxes have overall benefits even if you do not directly benefit them. But this is a state propaganda paid with public money. It harms the democracy more than it helps. 

 

6 hours ago, Krieg said:

And how was the TV over there during the communist times?

 

Similar with what we have here on multiple headcounts: 

- Controlled by state 

- Praising current leadership while burying its opposition 

- Kill any local media competition - in Germany's case due to heavy payment state of state founded media. 

- Bad quality content

 

Anyone who lived in U.S. can make a clear comparison. Germany is a semi-communist country. While nothing wrong with that, it should not advertise itself as "fully democratic country". Half truth is still a lie.  

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20 minutes ago, WanWhiteWolf said:

Germany is a semi-communist country. 

 

At least these ideological discussions always bring out pearls. Pearls of stupidity. 

 

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21 minutes ago, WanWhiteWolf said:

Anyone who lived in U.S. can make a clear comparison.

 

I know people in the U.S. who pay hundreds monthly for services like Comcast and multiple streaming sites. There are choices and you get what you pay for.

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10 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

 

At least these ideological discussions always bring out pearls. Pearls of stupidity. 

 

 

If you insult, at least bring some arguments with that. 

 

Germany has almost the same number of policies similar with China, as it has with U.S.  If your policies vary between a communist country and a democratic one, how do you call yourself? 

 

9 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

 

I know people in the U.S. who pay hundreds monthly for services like Comcast and multiple streaming sites. There are choices and you get what you pay for.

 

And that is fair. You have a freedom of choice. While you may argue that this is not the best economical approach in this situation, lifestyle and economy is superior in U.S.It means that they are doing something better. 

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Just now, WanWhiteWolf said:

lifestyle and economy is superior in U.S

 

5bfeb85205ef7_oh-wait-youtre-serious-let

 

Something tells me you're in the wrong country, man.

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15 minutes ago, WanWhiteWolf said:

 

If you insult, at least bring some arguments with that. 

 

Nope. I answer only factual questions on the topic, the discussion with ideologically motivated, self-proclaimed freedom fighters leads to nothing. Well - nothing but pearls of madness. Just like 'Germany is a semi-communist country'. 

 

Quote

- Praising current leadership while burying its opposition 

 

Those who proclaim stuff like this either have no idea what they are talking about - because they never consume the ÖR media - or they tell deliberate nonsense. Arguments won't be able to refute such claims anyway, because at best they're creeds. 

 

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1 hour ago, WanWhiteWolf said:

At the moment, German "public" media is the most expensive media on the planet

 

Are you talking about the TV licence fee? If so, that is incorrect

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damn...I was sorta onboard for the first half...then it went sideways

 

One thing I can say though:  America's corporation for public broadcasting (PBS and NPR), is truly a great model.

 

covers the same things the rundfuck does, but relies very heavily on donations from individual people (there is no tv "fee" for this, just donations) and this not only leaves them having to "work" for their funding, but it also allows you a less than obvious means to "vote" for different programming, by way of the fund drive statistics.

 

anyway, this really is something (of very few things) the US has managed to do better, IMO

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15 hours ago, WanWhiteWolf said:

lifestyle and economy is superior in U.S.It means that they are doing something better. 

 

It depends what you consider good lifestyle, I work 35 hours a week, so I leave the house at 7:00 am and I am back at 4:30 every week day including sending the kids to school and picking them up.    I have a bunch of hours with them.   

 

If you think USA lifestyle is better, it is OK, I believe you think that, people have different priorities.   But it is my opinion that financial liberalism and free markets are the guilty of most problems non-rich people have.   I am glad that Germany has been working in finding a balance between capitalism and people's well-being, I know finding that balance is not easy.

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Yes, it depends on what we value as our quality of life.  GDP per capita is higher in the US but average life expectancy is about 5% shorter, infant mortality is higher than most developed nations, and so on.

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16 hours ago, LeCheese said:

 

Are you talking about the TV licence fee? If so, that is incorrect

Which country has a higher budget than ca. €8 billion?

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On 28.11.2018, 09:26:21, zwiebelfisch said:

I don't have kids, why do my taxes pay for schools?

 

The flaw in that argument is that the TV Beitrag is specifically not a tax

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10 minutes ago, LukeSkywalker said:

Which country has a higher budget than ca. €8 billion?

 

Germany has a big population.  If you do it per-capita Germany's budget is still very big, but other countries have even bigger ones, like Norway and Switzerland.

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38 minutes ago, msam said:

 

The flaw in that argument is that the TV Beitrag is specifically not a tax

 

I didn't say it is, I said sometimes its right that people have to pay for things they don't directly use.  However whether or not its a tax to me is an odd question.  If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, even if someone passes a law which says swimming birds commonly seen around ponds are not ducks...

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1 hour ago, zwiebelfisch said:

 

I didn't say it is, I said sometimes its right that people have to pay for things they don't directly use.  However whether or not its a tax to me is an odd question.  If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, even if someone passes a law which says swimming birds commonly seen around ponds are not ducks...

 

I agree with your first sentence, but the question on whether it is a tax was a hot topic because as a tax it would have been illegal. In your analogy you can't hunt ducks but since said birds were declared to not be ducks, they can be hunted (despite the fact that they look like ducks and quack like ducks)...

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Hello everyone,

 

advice on my case please. I lived 4 years in Germany. When I moved my landlord told me I never got a letter to pay for the apartment so Ii shouldn't worry about it. Well 2 month ago I got a letter to register, after 3-4 letters I decided to register but in that time was offered a job outside Germany. I already left, Germany and don't think in returning ever again. I don't really want to pay for something I never used nor could used because never learnt German. I already unregister from city and everything, only have a joint account with my wife in Deutsch Bank. Can they come after me abroad? can they froze my account since the account is not just in my name. And if I close my account. At the moment we still using the account but in future we will close it since we have no address in Germany.

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39 minutes ago, tavaruapt said:

Hello everyone,

 

advice on my case please. I lived 4 years in Germany. When I moved my landlord told me I never got a letter to pay for the apartment so Ii shouldn't worry about it. Well 2 month ago I got a letter to register, after 3-4 letters I decided to register but in that time was offered a job outside Germany. I already left, Germany and don't think in returning ever again. I don't really want to pay for something I never used nor could used because never learnt German. I already unregister from city and everything, only have a joint account with my wife in Deutsch Bank. Can they come after me abroad? can they froze my account since the account is not just in my name. And if I close my account. At the moment we still using the account but in future we will close it since we have no address in Germany.

 

If you registered for the TV license you should definitely unregister, and send them proof that you left germany (the abmeldung from the city). It's not enough to unregister from the city.

 

The rest is debatable (you can read the previous 63 pages of this thread to get some answers)

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