American-German Dual Citizenship for Child

33 posts in this topic

On 9/9/2021, 4:18:34, klingklang77 said:

That being said, think about where you plan to live in the future because the children will have to file a US tax return if they are a citizen. You may also need the tax reduction for your US taxes. 

 

Just FYI, unless you formally renounce US citizenship, and you are a US citizen, you are required to file tax returns regardless of where you live or other citizenships you also hold. There are many accidental US citizens around the world who don’t know this until something else goes wrong bureaucratically, and they can suffer big penalties.

 

On 9/9/2021, 3:50:50, Aihal said:

Today we did register our twin boys with the Amt.. and they argued that they are not American by birth and if we get them US citizenship, the kids will have to chose once they turn 18.


The only agency who can decide if your children are US citizens or not is the US government, which as mentioned is done via the CRBA. The Amt gets to decide whether they are German or not.
 

As DoubleDTown said, the CRBA is just recognizing the citizenship, not granting it (i.e. naturalization). When the US Embassy/Consulate processes your CRBA, they will make the eligibility determination. It’s usually pretty clear who qualifies, and lawyers aren’t needed unless you get denied and want to appeal.

 

To determine your eligibility, here’s the State Department’s info that sounds like your personal situation (are married, spouse is not a US citizen - if wrong, there are other options to read about at the link). The key in the mumbo jumbo here is your birthdate, not the child’s - were you born before or after Nov. 14, 1986?

 

Child Born Abroad in Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen and an Alien 

A person born abroad in wedlock to a U.S. citizen and an alien acquires U.S. citizenship at birth if the U.S. citizen parent has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions prior to the person’s birth for the period required by the statute in effect when the person was born (INA 301(g), formerly INA 301(a)(7)). 

For birth on or after November 14, 1986, the U.S. citizen parent must have been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for five years prior to the person’s birth, at least two of which were after the age of 14.

For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, the U.S. citizen parent must have been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for 10 years prior to the person’s birth, at least five of which were after the age of 14 for the person to acquire U.S. citizenship at birth. In these cases, either the U.S. citizen parent or their alien spouse must have a genetic or gestational connection to the child in order for the U.S. parent to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.

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7 hours ago, MollyWolly said:

 

Just FYI, unless you formally renounce US citizenship, and you are a US citizen, you are required to file tax returns regardless of where you live or other citizenships you also hold. There are many accidental US citizens around the world who don’t know this until something else goes wrong bureaucratically, and they can suffer big penalties.

 


The only agency who can decide if your children are US citizens or not is the US government, which as mentioned is done via the CRBA. The Amt gets to decide whether they are German or not.
 

As DoubleDTown said, the CRBA is just recognizing the citizenship, not granting it (i.e. naturalization). When the US Embassy/Consulate processes your CRBA, they will make the eligibility determination. It’s usually pretty clear who qualifies, and lawyers aren’t needed unless you get denied and want to appeal.

 

To determine your eligibility, here’s the State Department’s info that sounds like your personal situation (are married, spouse is not a US citizen - if wrong, there are other options to read about at the link). The key in the mumbo jumbo here is your birthdate, not the child’s - were you born before or after Nov. 14, 1986?

 

Child Born Abroad in Wedlock to a U.S. Citizen and an Alien 

A person born abroad in wedlock to a U.S. citizen and an alien acquires U.S. citizenship at birth if the U.S. citizen parent has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions prior to the person’s birth for the period required by the statute in effect when the person was born (INA 301(g), formerly INA 301(a)(7)). 

For birth on or after November 14, 1986, the U.S. citizen parent must have been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for five years prior to the person’s birth, at least two of which were after the age of 14.

For birth between December 24, 1952 and November 13, 1986, the U.S. citizen parent must have been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for 10 years prior to the person’s birth, at least five of which were after the age of 14 for the person to acquire U.S. citizenship at birth. In these cases, either the U.S. citizen parent or their alien spouse must have a genetic or gestational connection to the child in order for the U.S. parent to transmit U.S. citizenship to the child.

Yes.  My son was born in 1985 in the US.  My two grandchildren, US citizens with US passports, were each born in Armenia, to him and his Armenian wife (not a US citizen).  He had to apply and verify all this for the 10 years.  Of course, after doing it for kid #1 (now 5) it was a no-brainer for kid #2 (now 2).  Everything was done at the US Embassy in Yerevan, where the family resides.  Hope this info helps the OP.

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13 hours ago, MollyWolly said:

 

Just FYI, unless you formally renounce US citizenship, and you are a US citizen, you are required to file tax returns regardless of where you live or other citizenships you also hold. There are many accidental US citizens around the world who don’t know this until something else goes wrong bureaucratically, and they can suffer big penalties.

 

 

 

 

Uh, that’s pretty much what I said. If the child is a US citizen, they have to file taxes when they get older, so the OP should consider that. I don’t know why you said FYI. 

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And such children need a Social Security Number, if this hasn't been mentioned. They'll need to be identified with that number on the parent's/s' IRS forms.

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On 9/9/2021, 4:18:34, klingklang77 said:

That being said, think about where you plan to live in the future because the children will have to file a US tax return if they are a citizen. 

 

8 hours ago, klingklang77 said:

 

Uh, that’s pretty much what I said. If the child is a US citizen, they have to file taxes when they get older, so the OP should consider that. I don’t know why you said FYI. 

 

Miscommunication! I read your first statement as suggesting someone can decide whether the kids have citizenship based on where they choose to live. But, as we are both saying, it doesn’t matter where they live because they will always have to file tax returns.

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If you meet the qualifications to pass citizenship on to your kids, they are US citizens whether or not you apply for proof. Of course, without a US birth certificate they can likely go through life never having exercised their US citizenship and most if not all will not notice, including US immigration. You can go this route if the future obligation to file taxes irrespective of their place of residence is the issue for you. However, it isn't THAT big of an issue, and if the want to renounce in the future, let them, so I suggest getting the CRBA and possibly a letter from the consulate stating that the child is automatically a US citizen, and that the CRBA/passport is only proof of this.

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34 minutes ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

If you meet the qualifications to pass citizenship on to your kids, they are entitled to US citizenship whether or not you apply for proof. 

FTFY.  If you don’t apply for proof then the burden is left to someone else.  For most cases that’s pretty simple, but in the more complex case of my grandchildren, referenced above, it was not.  And it would have been a worse nightmare for someone else to have done.  So I can see how some persons entitled to citizenship could not effectively use it.  BTW I don’t know of any Armenian who wouldn’t gladly trade some yearly IRS hassle for a Western citizenship/passport.  I know that you, of all people here, understand the dynamics and tradeoffs involved.

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Thanks, but it is not fixed. If you look at the language (https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/travel-legal-considerations/us-citizenship/Acquisition-US-Citizenship-Child-Born-Abroad.html#:~:text=A%20person%20born%20abroad%20in%20wedlock%20to%20a%20U.S.%20citizen,person%20was%20born%20(INA%20301():

 

'A person born abroad in wedlock to a U.S. citizen and an alien acquires U.S. citizenship at birth if the U.S. citizen parent has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions prior to the person’s birth for the period required by the statute in effect when the person was born'

 

The entitlement applies from birth, i.e. they are automatic citizens, if the parent has met the requirements to transmit. Of course, without a piece of paper, this is hard to prove, but if the claim by the Germans is that they would be 'applying' for it, that is patently false. They would be applying for the consular report of birth abroad, which is merely documentation of citizenship acquired automatically at birth.

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2 hours ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

The entitlement applies from birth, i.e. they are automatic citizens, if the parent has met the requirements to transmit. Of course, without a piece of paper, this is hard to prove,

Therein lies a problem in a few cases.

2 hours ago, kaffeemitmilch said:

but if the claim by the Germans is that they would be 'applying' for it, that is patently false. They would be applying for the consular report of birth abroad, which is merely documentation of citizenship acquired automatically at birth.

Agreed.  They are applying for proof of US citizenship, since they don’t have a birth certificate issued from within the US.  I had to do that for my kids who were born in West Berlin.  

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On 10.9.2021, 10:07:26, Neudarmstaedter said:

Another solution: 
Wait until a new, less conservative government allows dual nationality across the board. I speculate it will happen in the next couple years if we get an SPD or Green chancellor. Even Laschet apparently has showed openness to dual nationality in the past.

 

 

Voilá
https://www.dw.com/en/germanys-spd-fdp-and-greens-unveil-governing-coalition-deal/a-59915201

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1 hour ago, Neudarmstaedter said:

 

Snipped from your link:

Quote

This means the country will likely have a new government well before Christmas.

 

Plans to legalize the regulated sale of cannabis

 

Immigrants able to apply for citizenship after five years and allowed dual citizenship

With a little luck, we 'Murcans ll have a very merry Christmas and a happy new year!

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Hi All,

I believe @LeonG nailed the problem on is head.

But with my broken German what I understood is that they have to choose between their US and German citizenship (at 18 I've been told)... 

Maybe best would be to contact an immigration lawyer if the new Coalition doesn't relax dual citizenship laws.

 

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19 minutes ago, Aihal said:

Hi All,

I believe @LeonG nailed the problem on is head.

But with my broken German what I understood is that they have to choose between their US and German citizenship (at 18 I've been told)... 

Maybe best would be to contact an immigration lawyer if the new Coalition doesn't relax dual citizenship laws.

 

 

If you translate my link on deepl, it says: 

 

Quote

Children of foreign parents can acquire German citizenship by birth in Germany in addition to their parents' citizenship under certain conditions.

Since December 20, 2014, they can keep both citizenships if they grew up here. Only those who did not grow up here must generally choose between German and foreign citizenship after reaching the age of 21.

...

According to the legal definition (Section 29 (1) a StAG), a person has grown up in Germany if, up to the age of 21:

* has habitually resided in Germany for eight years or
* attended school in Germany for six years or
* has a school-leaving qualification obtained in Germany or has completed vocational training in Germany.

 

Now I don't know if this is what your ABH was referring to but if it was, they are a bit outdated for not telling you about the 2014 rule change.  I also don't know why they would say they can keep dual Ukraine and German but not US.  It would be allowed to keep German and another EU citizenship but Ukraine is not in the EU.  Maybe the person who told you this was simply wrong.  You can talk to a lawyer but you don't have to hurry as you have time at least until they turn 18.

 

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