Vegan coming for dinner

330 posts in this topic

53 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

*troll mode on* *troll mode off*

Were you trolling as you said, or actually interested in the science that demonstrates that animal protein is unnecessary for high athletic achievement, and health living in general.

I sorta got the impression you were trolling, as was of course SP.

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1 minute ago, yourkeau said:

Show me an average person. I'm afraid in this regard meat wins especially in countries which have real winters. Vegan diet works in India because you don't need much energy to live there, it's warm. On the other hand, people living in extreme cold conditions (-30 or lower) eat exclusively meat, otherwise they don't survive. Germany's climate is moderate, so you can get good without meat, but moderate amount will help.

 

Sorry. I apologize. I didn't realise I was up against an experienced nutritionist like yourself. So have you done your research in these extreme cold conditions ? Have you interviewed absolutely everyone and found that not a vegetable passes their lips when it's minus 30 ? It's difficult to show you an average person as these people don't tend to make the headlines - although you could look up the internet vegan cooking blogs showing lots of nice young woman with a healthy glow about them. A lot of them claim to have been vegan for years and they look good for it too.

 

So don't be too dismissive. If you actually delve into the subject you might just find that 'Big agriculture' hasn't been 100% honest to you about the beneficial effects of meat and dairy.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Jonny said:

Sorry. I apologize. I didn't realise I was up against an experienced nutritionist like yourself. So have you done your research in these extreme cold conditions ? Have you interviewed absolutely everyone and found that not a vegetable passes their lips when it's minus 30 ? It's difficult to show you an average person as these people don't tend to make the headlines - although you could look up the internet vegan cooking blogs showing lots of nice young woman with a healthy glow about them. A lot of them claim to have been vegan for years and they look good for it too.

I just know a bit about traditional cuisine in Northern countries. It's meat and fish. Most people there eat meat and fish because vegetables and fruits must be imported and are expensive. So, if there are good looking vegans in those countries, they must be rich. Well, if you're rich you can be a vegan everywhere, stimmt.

 

13 minutes ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

I sorta got the impression you were trolling, as was of course SP.

I'm not competent in this, so, yes, trolling.

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1 hour ago, yourkeau said:

 

Because there is nothing to argue about: human organism requires proteins and only meat has enough of them.

 

 

I'm a medical person and (humorous trolling aside ;)) have to disagree here.  Yes, I do know about nutrition and biochemistry of the body.

Yes, humans require a number of so-called essential amino acids (the building blocks of protein) they cannot synthesize themselves. Thus, they must be in human nutrition, as in "containing protein". Add the highly necessary vitamins and minerals, too, btw.

 

This is where the miracle of human flexibility as an omnivore starts:

There are countless combinations of foods, with and without meat/fish, with and without vegetables/fruit (!), that will provide a complete range of essential amino acids ("protein") and vitamins.

However, the more extreme the diet is, or the more limited the variety is, the more difficult it becomes. But it works, even for extreme vegans (grownups! Babies/children have other and higher needs!).

Early humans had to rely on trial and error - there is archeological evidence of severe malnutrition in groups of people who failed and died out.

 

The extremely limited vegan diet of early South American Indians consisting of (treated/nixtamalized) cornmeal tortillas and beans has been proven to provide a sufficient range of protein. (Vitamins maybe not always. Adding greens helps.) And of course breastfeeding children up to five years (calcium and more protein!) helped them to get through the critical early years and grow up healthy.

 

On the other end of the spectrum, certain Arctic tribes (e.g., but not only, some Inuit) would spend the entire winter eating fish and meat - but they also ate raw liver (packed with vitamins), as well as certain kinds of fermented/"rotten" meat (other vitamins from the bacteria), and did gather any kind of berry/greens in the short summer.

 

Us modern people know more about about nutrition and can come up with new novel combinations that will work (macrobiotics are a 20th century Japanese invention). So have fun, all!

I'll eat anything. ;)

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@Metall, thanks for what sounds like a knowledgeable addition to the thread. When people like @yourkeau say that only meat will provide us with enough protein, it sounds a bit silly when you look at strong vegan athletes who have been excelling in their sports for a number of years. Although I've no doubt that the vast majority of athletes don't eat this way , the vegan athletes show that if you want to - it's possible.

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I think yourkeau was pushing our buttons a bit, and wasn't entirely wrong either - we do need sufficient protein etc.

I know about successful *vegetarian* Olympic athletes.

It gets much much harder for athletes to be successful as *vegans* without taking supplements. (IMHO they do.)

 

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Some interesting news on this subject:

 

http://www.organicauthority.com/vegan-diet-appropriate-for-all-stages-of-the-life-cycle-says-largest-group-of-nutritionists/

 

A quote from the announcement:

 

“These diets are appropriate for all stages of the life cycle, including pregnancy, lactation, infancy, childhood, adolescence, older adulthood, and for athletes.”

 

Although I'm sure a lot of the nutrition "experts" on Toytown will disagree with this.;)

 

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6 hours ago, Anna66 said:

Just discovered this thread. Since 2016 there is so much more choice! As for vitamins etc. There are even special ones for vegetarians and vegans as well now!

Really? Special ones? Are they called Vitamin Z? Or Y?

 

6 hours ago, Anna66 said:

 

This new burger is really amazing.

 

https://www.gardengourmet.de/veggie-klassiker/garden-gourmet-incredible-burger

 

Excellent if you are having a BBQ and there are vegans invited.

Then you swap it for real meat while they don't see, right?

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20 hours ago, Anna66 said:

Excellent if you are having a BBQ and there are vegans invited.

 

Do you really think vegans would be happy to eat food cooked on the same grill as meat?

 

You only have to read the problems Burger King had to face with the introduction of the new impossible whopper

 

Quote

While the burger itself contains no meat, Burger King acknowledges that the Impossible patties are flame-grilled on the same broiler as its chicken and beefproducts. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Sir Percy B said:

Do you really think vegans would be happy to eat food cooked on the same grill as meat?

 

Probably not, but I don't think those new "fake meat" products are targeting the hardcore vegans, I think they are trying to target the meat eaters that want to reduce their red meat intake, that's why they concentrate so much in trying to emulate the taste and texture. 

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17 minutes ago, Krieg said:

Probably not, but I don't think those new "fake meat" products are targeting the hardcore vegans, I think they are trying to target the meat eaters that want to reduce their red meat intake, that's why they concentrate so much in trying to emulate the taste and texture. 

 

Bang on. I tried a pack of Beyond Burger from Lidl. I thought they were great. On their own, a bit bland maybe, but in a bun, with all the toppings I could not tell the difference. This will be a great way to reduce my red meat intake.

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11 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Can this aberration be called a burger at all in Europe? Shouldn´t it follow the same path as Soya "milk"?

 

Oh, you are one of the people who want to call them "Veggie Disks", and veggie sausages should be called "Veggie Tubes".

 

P.S., I am not joking, such people exist:  Veggie Disks and Tubes

 

P.P.S., I think the "Soya Milk" affair was ridiculous, it was not causing confusion.   But I totally agree with the "light" cigarettes name ban.

 

P.P.P.S., The Beyond Meat hamburgers are actually pretty decent.  I know, I know, ..

 

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And if they are going to ban confusing names, they should ban the damn Gemüsefrikadelle name or at least control it.    Because any normal person would think it is a vegetarian Frikadelle/Boullete, but not, it is a MEAT Frikadelle with some veggies inside.

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I do like my hamburgers, but now I'm curious enough to go out and get the Garden Gourmet and Beyond Meat patties and try them. Prices seem to be reasonable.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Sir Percy B said:

 

Do you really think vegans would be happy to eat food cooked on the same grill as meat?

 

You only have to read the problems Burger King had to face with the introduction of the new impossible whopper

 

 

 

I have family members who are vegans. We separate their food on the grill using aluminium trays.

 

14 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Really? Special ones? Are they called Vitamin Z? Or Y?

 

Then you swap it for real meat while they don't see, right?

 

Special ones, yes there are, check out the link

 

https://www.dm.de/mivolis-vegetarier-und-veganer-vitamine-mineralstoffe-tabletten-30-st-p4058172015793.html

 

Nope. Would never swop it for real meat...

 

In general meat production is very bad for the enviroment. Especially beef, we are all going to have to change the way we eat in the future due to climate change, whether we like it or not.

 

Found this link really interesting.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-46459714

 

1 hour ago, Krieg said:

 

Probably not, but I don't think those new "fake meat" products are targeting the hardcore vegans, I think they are trying to target the meat eaters that want to reduce their red meat intake, that's why they concentrate so much in trying to emulate the taste and texture. 

 

Exactly, we are trying to cut our meat down because of the environment and also because of the way the animals are treated.

 

I watched a film/documentary called "Dominion (2018)."

 

It was very eye opening as is this report below.

 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/environment/2019/01/commission-report-great-food-transformation-plant-diet-climate-change/

 

Both me and my partner want to cut down on our meat consumption. Seems logical in every way.

 

 

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well - I don't consider myself "vegetarian", or "vegan", or "carnivore" - I just watch what I eat for purely egoistic motives :)

simple, mostly plant based, and not very much food makes my old chassis feel the best, so I stick to that.

 

I do like medium-rare filet mignon on occasion, but will get punished for it the day after with a flare-up of arthritis.

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2 hours ago, Anna66 said:

In general meat production is very bad for the enviroment. Especially beef, we are all going to have to change the way we eat in the future due to climate change, whether we like it or not.

No we don´t. That is just bullshit propagated by the vegan-fueled media. There are way more effective ways to tackle climate change than cutting on beef, as the overall agricultural contribution is small. If we go that way, then let´s cut down rice too, it emits almost as much climate change contributing gases as beef.

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/rice-farming-climate-change-global-warming-india-nitrous-oxide-methane-a8531401.html

 

So let´s stop talking bullshit, because nobody will cut down on rice consumption.

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