Vegan coming for dinner

330 posts in this topic

This whole dicussion remind me of al old story (probably 12 or 13 years ago) I think I already posted it here somewhere. I was in the buffet line in a company's event, probably Christmas party and the person behind me looked at my plate and the convo went like this:

- So, you are a fake.
- Excuse me?
- (Pointing at the food on my plate) You are a fake.
- Sorry, I do not get it.
- You have chicken in your plate.
- YYY...es. Sorry, I still do not get it.
- Chicken is meat.
- I would agree.
- So, you are a fake.
- Sorry, I really do not know what you are talking about.
- You are eating meat, therefore you are not a vegetarian.
- I think you are confusing me with someone else, I am not a vegetarian.
- No, I am not confusing you with anyone else. I've seen you in the canteen (cafeteria) quite often eating the vegetarian food.
- Yes, sure, but I am not a vegetarian.
- Then why do you eat the vegetarian food?
- Because I like it.
- Oh ...

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It realy is strange, how vegetarians are put into a box as to what they may or may not eat. It's proibably better to say you wat vegetarian food rather than say you are a vegetarian, because people do get huffy about it. Personally, I would still call someone who likes meat and eats it very occasionally, for instance when invited out, a vegetarian. It's not, for me, a definition written in stone with very strict defining lines, but for some people it seems to be, and some get upset when you "break the rules". (what rules?)

 

My daughter moved into her student flat last weekend, and one of her housemates is vegan. We had breakfast together, and the girl was spreading somehing on her bread from a container. My daughter asked, what's that? And she said, Margarine.

Well, margarine is one of the most unhealthy common foods there is; totally artificial, and often containing transfats. Neither my daughter or I have eaten it for over a decade. It's really not a good substitute for butter. But this vegan seems not to mind.

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You might have to rethink that. As far as the documentary I saw the other day on BBC said, modern margarine is now healthier than butter. Old school margarine was indeed bad.

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9 minutes ago, arunadasi said:

My daughter moved into her student flat last weekend, and one of her housemates is vegan. We had breakfast together, and the girl was spreading somehing on her bread from a container. My daughter asked, what's that? And she said, Margarine.

Well, margarine is one of the most unhealthy common foods there is; totally artificial, and often containing transfats. Neither my daughter or I have eaten it for over a decade. It's really not a good substitute for butter. But this vegan seems not to mind.

 

Even if you regard it as unhealthy it's still vegan. Being vegan doesn't always mean being a health conscious eater. I could be vegan and exist on a diet of Chips/Fries, Oreos and Coke. I'd be very fat but I'd be vegan.

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5 minutes ago, arunadasi said:

And she said, Margarine.

Well, margarine is one of the most unhealthy common foods there is; totally artificial, and often containing transfats. Neither my daughter or I have eaten it for over a decade. It's really not a good substitute for butter. But this vegan seems not to mind.

 

You can get  bio vegan margarine that has no trans, no esterified fats.  They use organic coconut and palm fat with rape seed oil.  So no need to harden as naturally hard.  An example is bio Alsan.  Taste is fairly neurtral.   Has same fat percentage as butter.

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For all the people who only eat meat or fish very occasionaly, you can always say that you eat a mainly 'plant based' diet. It seems to be the trendy way of saying that your diet is mainly fruit and veg but you're open to other things.

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Krieg: I did not see the documentary, but I do follow nutrition developments. Trouble is, the Butter is Bad message is also wrong, but has been flying around for decades and so many still believe it. So it's all relative. Was that documentary still upholing the cholesterol myth? If so, then "better than butter" means nothing, because butter is just fine.

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33 minutes ago, Jonny said:

For all the people who only eat meat or fish very occasionaly, you can always say that you eat a mainly 'plant based' diet. It seems to be the trendy way of saying that your diet is mainly fruit and veg but you're open to other things.

 

I have never been trendy, and never will be. Vegetarian works for me. It's more than "plant-based". It's all plant, with an occasional 0.01% fish.

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52 minutes ago, arunadasi said:

I have never been trendy, and never will be.

 

I realised this in another post when you mention that you like to wear socks with sandals :P

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I'd be worried that a plant based diet would be an invitation to feed me boiled vegetables, or another fucking salad.

Humous and felafel, and vegie moussaka or any curry might be based on plants, but I don't think springs first to mind when somebody hears plant based diet.

 

Have you even seen a vegan smoke? Why would a vegan smoke?

Because they are vegan for moral not health reasons.

 

@KriegI have indeed heard that story from you before. I suspect a meat eater thought you were vegetarian by observing your eating practices, and saw an opportunity to critcise when you ate chicken. It's all tied up with the insecure meat eater feeling attacked by the vegetarian.

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17 hours ago, arunadasi said:

 

I don't mind at all people objecting to eating food that comes from dead animals. I do object to such a strict definition of vegetarians, that you guys would point at me and say poo-poo!

 

I'm not poo poo ing your food choices. The only time I would, would be if a carnivore was devouring foi gras, or live monkey brains, or live lobster tail and I might ask them if they realise how cruel their food is.

 

I am poo pooing you're calling yourself a vegetarian when you eat fish because you are setting up many other vegetarians for the age old: But vegetarians eat fish. Why are you being difficult and refusing fish?

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I'm sorry for the vegetarians I am setting up. Truly sorry about that! But if I have to choose between being an accommodating guest who occasionally compromises for the sake of sparing my host a slight cookery hassle, and the bother pure vegetarians need to go through when they are asked if they eat fish, I will choose being a good guest. I think you will just have to put up with the questioning!

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i personally am not fussed about labels and can't stand people applying labels so strictly.  In my mind, anyone can call themselves a vegetarian, if they prefer to not eat meat.  I roll my eyes at other people telling people they are NOT a vegetarian when they break from the label once in a while.  There's no law here; it is allowed.   

 

I almost always prefer vegetarian meals but coming from a beef farming upbringing, it is nearly impossible for me to be a strict vegetarian.  I don't call myself vegetarian because i prefer not to have the argument, but i don't see why anyone couldn't.   Like Arundasi stated, being an accommodating guest is sometimes important, esp if you run in culinary circles where broth is an important staple.  

 

 

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Hmmm, seems to me true vegetarians object to the misuse of the term vegetarian because they are worried that meat stock will appear in their vegetarian curries, they will be offered fish, or be given non isiinglas free wine.

 

Almost vegetarians object to the above attitude because it's applying labels and will reduce the convenience of just saying I'm vegetarian when they really don't want red meat, but are happy with fish, and meat stock. Although frankly I don't get how misusing the vegetarian label is more accommodating to hosts. Saying you don't mind fish or meat stock is being accommodating. You don't have to misuse a label for that.

 

I suppose I could call myself a doctor because I have a reasonable medical knowledge, travel with an emergency kit, and am often called upon to treat minor problems while I'm travelling in Asia. Doctors are oppressing me by demanding I qualify medical school to call myself a doctor and I can't stand people applying labels so strictly.

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2 minutes ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

I suppose I could call myself a doctor because I have a reasonable medical knowledge, travel with an emergency kit, and am often called upon to treat minor problems while I'm travelling in Asia. Doctors are oppressing me by demanding I qualify medical school to call myself a doctor and I can't stand people applying labels so strictly.

No, this analogy is not appropriate.

 

I have a better one. Pizza is a food which contains bread, tomatoes, mozarella and olive oil only. This is what is known as pizza in Napoli where it comes from. It's non vegan but vegetarian. Unfortunately for Napoletanos it was impossible to protect this brand since many countries of Europe produce pizzas with meat, fish or other shit and call it pizza. So, these days only Pizza Napoletana is protected as a brand in European Union.

 

The same applies to beer: beer is a drink made from malt, hops and water (and yeast, of course). Everything else is not beer, but due to many producing countries adding different shit to beer it is not possible to protect this brand. Only Bavarian Beer is protected brand in European Union.

 

There are exceptions: Wiener Schnitzel from pork is not allowed to be called Wiener Schnitzel. And champagne outside that French region should be called Sekt.

 

So, my point: until vegetarians protect their brand "vegetarian food" in the EU you can't complain, I'm sorry.

 

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6 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

No, this analogy is not appropriate.

 

Quite so, it is called the no true scotsman.  A doctor is one who is recognised by law as a doctor, with a second meaning beaing someone who holds a phd.  A vegetarian is a losely defined "someone who does not eat meat" which for historical reasons sometimes includes or excludes fish.  Remember that Catholics eat fish on friday because that is the day they dont eat meat ;)  Whether or not vegetarians eat eggs or milk is not clearly defined and some people attempt to use lacto/ovo to better narrow it down, and many vegetarians decide not to care about trace amounts of gelatine in candy etc. As MAM himself said there is also disagreement with things like wearing leather, which *I* would argue is not a vegetarian question at all as vegetarianism relates to the eating of meat not of its use outside the kitchen.  Others disagree.

 

This isnt, as MAM previously tried to claim, about shaming vegetarians who are Not True Vegetarians, but rather it is ambiguity in the term.  People can argue as much as they like but the word as commonly used simply has fuzzy edges and people pick and chose how they identify themselves and each other. 

 

Saying someone who sometimes eats fish is not a vegetarian is just as pointless as saying someone who uses condoms isnt a catholic.

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The analogy of Vegetarian to Doctor isn't appropriate because a doctor has a legal paper to call him/herself that.  There are a number of titles that you can't use legally unless you have a licence to do so (i.e. an Engineer in canada, a notary in Germany)

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