Vegan coming for dinner

330 posts in this topic

12 minutes ago, arunadasi said:

 

I think you mean vegan here. Most vegetarians aren't that fussed about such matters.

Indian vegetarians certainly aren't; and in South India at least, vegetarian is the default. Restaurants are vegetarian, unless they identify as "Non-Veg". I've never ever heard a vegetarian (and I've been one for over 45 years) getting upset about  rennet. I think  you should self-identify as vegan, rather than vegetarian.

To me, the "getting upset" is more harmful than the actual ingredient.

 

I certainly don't mean vegan. I mean vegetarian. I've never been to India (sadly - I've had to turn down a once in a lifetime chance to go later this year), so I'll bow to your knowledge there, but the majority of vegetarians I have met do care about rennet. Does Indian cheese even contain rennet? I know paneer doens't. I don't self identify as vegan, because I eat eggs and milk products, and very much enjoy them. I actually don't even identify as vegetarian or pescetarian, as mentioned above, although pescetarian most closely matches my diet.

 

I'm not criticising those who don't care about rennet in cheese, everyone has their reasons for their diet, sometimes logical, sometimes less so (and here I refer more to my own), but I do feel right in criticising restaurants and food producers who mislabel their food as vegetarian.

 

As for getting upset being more harmful than the ingredient: you seem to think I am so upset by it that I go on a killing spree every time. Trust me, I'm not.

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38 minutes ago, plantwhisperer said:
38 minutes ago, plantwhisperer said:

 

As for getting upset being more harmful than the ingredient: you seem to think I am so upset by it that I go on a killing spree every time. Trust me, I'm not.

 

 

 

ha, no, I don't, and I wasn't thinking of you specifically! But there seem to be people who get so freaked out because they have eaten or might eat some hidden taboo ingredient that their whole day is ruined. That's what I mean -- worrying. Which I think is bad for the health! :)

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If a vegetarian says they don't ingest material from dead animals, then what is the threshold. Will they tolerate 0.001% dead animal. 1%? 10%?

 

A lot of vegetarians care about rennet to the point they don't eat cheese, or feel properly guilty while enjoying their rennet stuffed cheese, and issinglas loaded wine.

 

@arunadasi You've made it clear that you are a vegetarian because you dislike meat.

But a lot of vegetarians are moral vegetarians and they will reject anything to do with dead animals.

 

in fact I's say the moral vegetarian is more common than the meat avoiding, or healthy vegetarian. but here are you saying vegetarians don't care about rennet.

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Yeah, I've always avoided rennet and gelatine and other such products. Obviously its no big deal if you're vegetarian because you don't like the taste of meat, but if its for other reasoms, such as not supporting factory farming/animal-welfare, then eating rennet doesn't make sense.

 

On the other hand, I'm very much aware that avoiding rennet in cheese on animal-welfare grounds while continuing to consume milk itself is not an especially tenable moral position...

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4 hours ago, plantwhisperer said:

 

Not always, but often. It is also sometimes clarified with gelatine, derivatives of egg or milk (casein), or sometimes even non-animal products!

 

AFAIK, that is not used on Portuguese wines. I've made some work with wine producers 10 years ago and I never heard about it.

For liquors, it is different, some people do add pieces of meat to it, but only in home productions, not in large scale.

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what_kind_of_clarification_is_portuguese_wine

 

Quote

Finally your question asks what kind of "clarification" is Portuguese wine. Just to give an extra bit of help. If you did mean clarification and not classification, then I can say that Portuguese wine is clarified by the same means most wine is, either cold stabilization, fining with a inert agent(egg, isinglass, bentonite). But I think this is not what you were looking for.

 

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Thank you both for the info on Portuguese wine. On that topic, if it is still available I recommend the Torre de Ferro Reserva that Lidl has had for a month or two.

Not sure what it was clarified with, but it was an absolute bargain. Yum yum.

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Because I don't care what anyone else eats/doesn't eat, I don't get the whole thing about identifying oneself by the foods they like. Read the menu, order your food - I don't need to hear the reasons behind what you chose. I find it all a bit annoying, TBH.

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1 minute ago, fraufruit said:

Because I don't care what anyone else eats/doesn't eat, I don't get the whole thing about identifying oneself by the foods they like. Read the menu, order your food - I don't need to hear the reasons behind what you chose. I find it all a bit annoying, TBH.

 

Says the fruitatarian ;)

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6 hours ago, MadAxeMurderer said:

If a vegetarian says they don't ingest material from dead animals, then what is the threshold. Will they tolerate 0.001% dead animal. 1%? 10%?

 

A lot of vegetarians care about rennet to the point they don't eat cheese, or feel properly guilty while enjoying their rennet stuffed cheese, and issinglas loaded wine.

 

@arunadasi You've made it clear that you are a vegetarian because you dislike meat.

But a lot of vegetarians are moral vegetarians and they will reject anything to do with dead animals.

 

in fact I's say the moral vegetarian is more common than the meat avoiding, or healthy vegetarian. but here are you saying vegetarians don't care about rennet.

 

To be honest, this the first time in my life I've heard that vegetarians care about rennet. Most of the vegetarians I've met have been Indians. They count too,and don't really discuss things like rennet. They were doing it long before Westerners. I've met a lot of vegetarians in my 65 years. I've never heard any of them talk about rennetr, or question food to find out if it contains rennet -- not ever! We must move in different circles. The main moral point is, I think, not that food (leather etc)comes from a dead animal, but that an animal was killed expressly to obtain such food.

I don't mind at all people objecting to eating food that comes from dead animals. I do object to such a strict definition of vegetarians, that you guys would point at me and say poo-poo! But as I said before, I just prefer to say "I don't eat meat.'

I don't really care what you eat. I do care about being a hassle to people who are hosting a meal, and try not to be conspicuous if at all possible.

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One of the problems vegetarians do have, when invited to eat somewhere, is when people suggest, oh, just remove the meat and eat the rest. Like, in a stew, or something. I'd suggest you don't do anything like that if hosting a vegetarian.

Last summer friends who know what I eat invited me to a grill party; the husband, who was in charge of the grill, said they had some slabs of grill cheese for me. So far, so good. But then he proceeded to grill the cheese next to the chunks of meat, or on places where the gravy was all over the grill. I found that pretty disgusting, but said nothing and somehow ate around it. I'm strict in my own way...

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In my experience rennet doesn't seem to be an issue in Germany, but it was in the UK for decades. I've certainly heard it discussed by English vegetarian friends, although that was many years ago, so maybe this was just an issue in the past. I remember that 15-20 years ago (can't be sure when) many packaged cheeses in the UK were labeled as "vegetable rennet", and for a long time I never new what the heck that meant. I don't see that any more and I wonder whether either British vegetarians don't care anymore or whether all British cheeses are produced without rennet these days and hence the labeling was no longer necessary.

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I had never heard of this rennet word till now! Just had a couple of cream crackers with Danish Blue Cheese and just sneaked a look at the packaging and it says " rennetmicrobial ". Hm, nice one or not? No idea, I'll be honest.

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Rennet has a long history in household food.  My mother used to make junket, a pudding that used rennet to gently coagulate milk to form an easily digestible dessert for little children.

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24 minutes ago, arunadasi said:

 

Most of the vegetarians I've met have been Indians. They count too,and don't really discuss things like rennet. They were doing it long before Westerners. I've met a lot of vegetarians in my 65 years. I've never heard any of them talk about rennetr, or question food to find out if it contains rennet -- not ever!

 

That might actually be exactly why they haven't cared about rennet. I did some research after you mentioned India earlier, and I couldn't find any traditional Indian cheeses made with rennet. They are all made using acid (e.g. lemon juice or vinegar, which is the other way cheeses can be made, but with a different result) or with "paneer doda", which I gather is some sort of plant which coagulates the milk.

 

28 minutes ago, arunadasi said:

I don't mind at all people objecting to eating food that comes from dead animals. I do object to such a strict definition of vegetarians, that you guys would point at me and say poo-poo! But as I said before, I just prefer to say "I don't eat meat.'

I don't really care what you eat. I do care about being a hassle to people who are hosting a meal, and try not to be conspicuous if at all possible.

 

I don't poo-poo your diet whatsoever, and although I wouldn't consider you a vegetarian (in the same way I wouldn't consider myself one) I also understand that sometimes it is just easier for everyone to say you are. I also agree with you about not wanting to cause a hassle, and often I find the people I'm with are more concerned about things than I am.

 

17 minutes ago, arunadasi said:

One of the problems vegetarians do have, when invited to eat somewhere, is when people suggest, oh, just remove the meat and eat the rest. Like, in a stew, or something. I'd suggest you don't do anything like that if hosting a vegetarian.

Last summer friends who know what I eat invited me to a grill party; the husband, who was in charge of the grill, said they had some slabs of grill cheese for me. So far, so good. But then he proceeded to grill the cheese next to the chunks of meat, or on places where the gravy was all over the grill. I found that pretty disgusting, but said nothing and somehow ate around it. I'm strict in my own way...

 

Ah, see, I wouldn't be bothered much by my food being barbecued next to the meat. But in the past I would have been, so again horses for courses (but not main courses, for many people in this thread). I would be bothered about a stew that had been cooked with meat. The idea of, and the taste of, the meat juices seems horrible to me.

 

11 minutes ago, Smaug said:

In my experience rennet doesn't seem to be an issue in Germany, but it was in the UK for decades. I've certainly heard it discussed by English vegetarian friends, although that was many years ago, so maybe this was just an issue in the past. I remember that 15-20 years ago (can't be sure when) many packaged cheeses in the UK were labeled as "vegetable rennet", and for a long time I never new what the heck that meant. I don't see that any more and I wonder whether either British vegetarians don't care anymore or whether all British cheeses are produced without rennet these days and hence the labeling was no longer necessary.

 

I think awareness of rennet is a lot lower among German vegetarians, and even awareness of gelatine. I also think the average German vegetarian has a different mindset when it comes to vegetarianism (more about limiting meat consumption than outright avoiding), and those who want to outright avoid meat are vegan (never met as many vegans in the UK as I have in Germany - a real shock I'll tell you!). In the UK, cheeses labelled with a big green V tend are made with vegetarian rennet (or no rennet at all). German labelling for vegetarians isn't anywhere near as established - the equivalent to the "vegetable rennet" term you mentioned would be "mikrobelles Lab".

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6 minutes ago, john g. said:

I had never heard of this rennet word till now! Just had a couple of cream crackers with Danish Blue Cheese and just sneaked a look at the packaging and it says " rennetmicrobial ". Hm, nice one or not? No idea, I'll be honest.

 

That would be rennet produced by microbes, therefore suitable for vegetarians.

Also, that sounds tasty, can I have some? The blue cheese in Germany just doesn't match up.

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Come on over to Crete, plantwhisperer! It is available even in Cretan supermarkets! Time for some more!😂

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9 minutes ago, john g. said:

Come on over to Crete, plantwhisperer! It is available even in Cretan supermarkets! Time for some more!😂

 

Maybe next year. I'll make sure to look you up.

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10 hours ago, plantwhisperer said:

 

That might actually be exactly why they haven't cared about rennet. I did some research after you mentioned India earlier, and I couldn't find any traditional Indian cheeses made with rennet. They are all made using acid (e.g. lemon juice or vinegar, which is the other way cheeses can be made, but with a different result) or with "paneer doda", which I gather is some sort of plant which coagulates the milk.

 

 

I

 

I don't think they would care even if they knew it was in food. Indians are vegetarians for other reasons than Westerners, as I said before. It is because they believe eating meat (Meat, not rennet!) has an negative influence on the mind, in that it strengthens Rajasic tendencies. Rajasic means aggressive, active, sexual tendencies. I met quite a few Indian men who explained to me why they eat Sattvic food, in order to reduce sexual desire (So, quite the opposite to the West, where people  tend to want to increase sexual desire)  -- sattvic, as in vegetables and fruit, promotes calming, peaceable tendencies. This is an aspect to vegetarian diet which is unknown in the West. This is the main reason for vegetarianism among Hindus. I don't believe, if they knew about rennet etc, it would bother them in the least, just as it doesn't bother me. We are still vegetarians. Nobody owns the word!

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