Vladimir Putin - a great man in history

65 posts in this topic

Topic split: Vladimir Putin is so tough ...

 

On a more serious note, this is one of the great men of history. He took over at a time when Russia was in utter chaos and being robbed blind by Western interests, sorry I mean being opened up to capitalism. In less than 15 years he has turned Russia into a very significant Great Power again, arguably number three in the world, and a country that the West are obviously scared of (witness the continual attempts to destabilise the country, and its Ukrainian ally over the past couple of years). And just watch as Germany moves away from the US towards Russia over the next couple of decades: Russia being wealthy and supplying a lot of Germany's energy with the US being near bankruptcy but still an overwhelming military.

 

He also appears to give a damn about the Russian workers. Taken from Wiki:

 

"During Putin's first premiership and presidency (1999–2008), real incomes increased by a factor of 2.5, real wages more than tripled; unemployment and poverty more than halved and the Russians' self-assessed life satisfaction rose significantly"

 

I can't think of more than one British politician who got near the levers of power in the past 17 years who gave a toss about British workers. Now there are certain questions about his human rights record, particularly against those who protest against the state and his government.

 

No sexy pictures of Vlad from me I'm afraid. :wub:

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

...real incomes increased by a factor of 2.5, real wages more than tripled; unemployment and poverty more than halved...

 

Be careful with this sort of information. (What are Pussy Riot about?) You have to take a good look at the starting point. Tripling wages from 1 crumb an hour to 3 crumbs an hour still equals dire straights, rather than a good income. All progress is welcome but don't be taken in by statistics taken out of context.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And it is well-known that it is a lot easier for dictators to make an economy seem prosperous than having to deal with improving an economy when all the plebs can have a say

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Russia is lucky to have Germany next door for its gas and oil customer. 90% of its export income comes from oil and gas, very little from manufactured goods.

That explains why Russia opposes an Arab gas pipe line via Syria and hence the problem there.

I don't think it is very convenient for Germany/Europe either to have to depend on one exclusive supplier of energy.Russia (Putin) is in the driver seat there.

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a Russian friend in Moscow, her wages were recently reduced by 50% (as were her colleagues), so much for rising wages

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Now there are certain questions about his human rights record, particularly against those who protest against the state and his government.

Those who don't protest will be affected too, even if it's 'just' by being intimidated into not expressing their views.

 

His human rights record certainly seems a tad questionable:

 

Reporters without Borders: Russia ("Although lawsuits and prosecutions are common, violence continues to be the main problem.")

Anna Politkovskaya (journalist/human rights activist apparently assassinated on Putin's birthday)

 

(choosing to sit on a podium like a monarch when answering questions from journalists - hardly a sign of a democrat; and the questions from the Russian journalists seem more like cues)

 

 

Amnesty International's 2013 report for the Russian Federation

 

Summary: Increasing peaceful political protest was met with repression. New laws restricting the rights to freedom of expression, assembly and association were introduced. Human rights defenders, journalists and lawyers continued to face harassment, while investigations into violent attacks were ineffective. Torture and other ill-treatment remained widespread, and were seldom effectively prosecuted. Trials did not meet international standards of fairness, and the number of apparently politically motivated decisions grew. Insecurity and volatility in the North Caucasus persisted, and security operations launched in response were marred by systematic human rights violations with near-total impunity for the perpetrators.

 

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

... who gave a toss about British workers. Now there are certain questions about his human rights record...

 

You write these two ideas side-by-side--- surely you jest.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I teach in a company that was bought out by a Russian concern about 4 years ago and now up to 40% of the employees are Russian speaking. Some of them grew up here in Germany with Russian parents and many have come over from Russia to work here.

 

During discussions about cultural differences, I was surprised to learn that many Russians really like Putin, the word “love” was even used. They want a superhero as a leader, both of their country and in their companies. They want someone who can make decisions without having to discuss it with other people.

 

It also seems many of them hated Gorbachev, they found him weak and still blame him for some of the problems they are having today.

 

This was said by different people in different classes and took me a little by surprise as I believe here in Europe, we see it very differently.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can echo that Tap. I have two Russian colleagues. They like Putin and hate Boris Yeltsin and Gorbachev.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's the same mentality as Germany faced in 1933 which brought Hitler into power. makes me wonder why people need someone to look up to. Willing slave attitude leads to no good.

9

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

It's the same mentality as Germany faced in 1933 which brought Hitler into power. makes me wonder why people need someone to look up to. Willing slave attitude leads to no good.

 

Not everyone wants someone in authority holding their hand throughout life, but depressingly they are in the minority. It is no surprise that the phrases independent thought and free-thinking come from the same corners that just can't get enough gov't regulation in their lives.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And how, exactly, did you make your money, Gaber? Do you honestly believe that the capitalist world that you have done so well by is not also seriously indebted to the "willing slave attitude"?

 

Don´t get me wrong. I think Putin is an egomaniacal, fascistic, cunt. But, to use the oft quoted and factually incorrect quote used to describe Mussolini - "At least he got the trains to run on time"

 

All that gold and silver. All those diamonds and jewels. All of this wealth that you have worked with and profited from in your life. That was all "fair trade", yes?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I have a Russian friend in Moscow, her wages were recently reduced by 50% (as were her colleagues), so much for rising wages

 

Moscow is kind of Russian Monaco. Unfortunately, situation in Moscow says nothing about the rest of Russia.

 

 

I can echo that Tap. I have two Russian colleagues. They like Putin and hate Boris Yeltsin and Gorbachev.

 

In Germany?! I don't know anyone who loves Putin here in Germany.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

All that gold and silver. All those diamonds and jewels. All of this wealth that you have worked with and profited from in your life. That was all "fair trade", yes? All that gold and silver. All those diamonds and jewels. All of this wealth that you have worked with and profited from in your life. That was all "fair trade", yes?

It does not matter what you do to make a living.Trading in jewels is not as profitable as the general public thinks it is.Selling milk with a 2% markup and a turnover of 300 times a year brings a lot more money than jewellery with a markup of 50 % turning once a year.Not counting the risk factor or the cost of money, or the marketing factor.

 

Hitler was voted into power because the population wanted law and order as the old economic order and some layers of the German business world (and the governments of the victors)tried to starve the German population out. It did not work then, it won't work now after the "Big banks and money people" distorted the economic equilibrium.

 

Governments should be fair arbitrators for all the people not only for those who can finance

their elections.

If you drink to much you become an alcoholic and your decisions get flawed on all your own doings.

Should not the government take you out of circulation until you are sobered up?

We should assist our neighbor when he needs help as we expect it from him when we need it.(that's still our western spirit here)

 

Unfortunately our society has regressed instead advanced with our modern life style and let us forget our social obligations.

Now "helping" has become big business for job creation and bureaucracy has made social assistance very expensive.

 

Hitler got to organize all the social life in Germany, got things going by organizing the unemployed (the young ones for next to nothing)

got support payments for families with a bunch of kids, and established the military and all was fine until the war broke out and was lost and a lot of wealth was destroyed and all the promises of the "safe money" was gone to the paper heaven.

Just pray that our paper money keeps some value until you retire, because things don't look well at all as I see it.

 

If you want to see how the Third Reich operated go to you tube and you can see how brainless the masses got.

 

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Topic split: Vladimir Putin is so tough ...

 

On a more serious note, this is one of the great men of history. He took over at a time when Russia was in utter chaos and being robbed blind by Western interests, sorry I mean being opened up to capitalism. In less than 15 years he has turned Russia into a very significant Great Power again, arguably number three in the world, and a country that the West are obviously scared of (witness the continual attempts to destabilise the country, and its Ukrainian ally over the past couple of years). And just watch as Germany moves away from the US towards Russia over the next couple of decades: Russia being wealthy and supplying a lot of Germany's energy with the US being near bankruptcy but still an overwhelming military.

 

He also appears to give a damn about the Russian workers. Taken from Wiki:

 

"During Putin's first premiership and presidency (1999–2008), real incomes increased by a factor of 2.5, real wages more than tripled; unemployment and poverty more than halved and the Russians' self-assessed life satisfaction rose significantly"

 

I can't think of more than one British politician who got near the levers of power in the past 17 years who gave a toss about British workers. Now there are certain questions about his human rights record, particularly against those who protest against the state and his government.

 

No sexy pictures of Vlad from me I'm afraid.

 

Hitler was also regarded as a great leader. Until of course...

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the USA lose their government in a coup, spend the last 14 years implementing increasingly fascist laws, destroy the rights of their citizens, maintain a list of millions of people that have to be frisked down just for passing through an airport of bus station, they seek military dominance over all other countries, carry out invasions and engineer regime in several countries etc.. etc.. etc... Putin speaks out against the overthrow of Libya, he tries to stop the overthrow of Syria, he stands back and tries to mediate a legal solution to the Ukraine crisis and then you compare HIM to Hitler??? FFS - you are all delusional

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now