Anlage AUS - income from rented flat

22 posts in this topic

Hi,

I am a kleinunternehmer. I recently filed my income declaration for 2012. My total income as a freelance here in Germany was 6000 euros.

I have then an income derived from a rented flat in Italy. I was told by two accountants two different things on how to behave regarding this income.

 

Option A was I DID NOT need to include this income in any way in my Steuererklärung.

 

Option B was yeah, I did have to include it using ANLAGE AUS but it wouldn't affect my taxes after all. This option was then confirmed by the Finanzamt.

 

So I went for option B, with the understanding that being my actual income in germany still under 8.000 I would have had to pay no taxes.

Turns out I now have to pay the 13,0952% on those 6000 which I guess derives from the fact that they calculated this based on the sum of my german income and what I put in the Anlage Aus.

 

I know of a few other people with a situation identical to mine who were told not to include their italian income and they didn't.

Now I am not sure if I fucked up something or if I actually did it right and I have to pay these taxes, just everyone else I know is doing it wrong? This would be quite surprising though since apparently various Steuerberater are insisting on not including the Anlage AUS for income deriving from rented flats in Italy.

I just had the impression, from things I read here as well, it was more correct to do it but that it wouldn't in any way affect my taxes.

 

Any help would be much appreciated, I am very confused at this point. Now that I thought I was beginning to get it..

 

thanks

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Thank you so much Panda, this is amazing! I am gonna send this first thing tomorrow and really hope it works.

I can't believe the Finanzamt would just give me the wrong information!

 

Again, thank you so much and I will post any development here for future reference.

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Apparently that didn't work unfortunately. I just received this letter and from what I could understand they are rejecting my objection as "unfounded".

 

At this point I am even more confused on what the actual legislation on this topic is. Any advice on how to proceed would be highly appreciated. It's really not only a matter of paying more or less taxes at this point but of understanding what's the right thing to do.

 

I do have friends who following their Steuerberater's advice didn't include rental income from flats in Italy in their tax declaration. It would seems weird that they were basically all given advice to evade taxes.

 

thanks in advance

 

finanzamt-refusal.jpeg

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I don't quite follow the meaning of that PandaMunich letter but after reading the first sentence I'm shivering with fear and my heart is pounding like trapped sparrow's. Nothing like German legalesse to scare the crap out of anyone! Well done!

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PandaMunich - can I marry you please (Oooops, hope my lovely wife don't read that!)

This effort of yours is clearly above and beyond the call of duty and I am very proud to write on the same forum like you. I mean it.

Cheerio

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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Thank you so so much Panda, this is just incredible. I can't believe you are going through such efforts to help me out.

This stuff is really quite confusing and it seems that even accountants get it often wrong. I will go and check all this documents before sending them cause I am quite keen on understanding myself what the deal is. It seems to be the only option really not to fuck up next time.

 

Again, thank you so much!!!

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those clerks do not have university degrees

 

Einsprüche (unlike the initial Veranlagung) are handled by Finanzbeamte im gehobenen Dienst in pretty much all states.

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In my experience, such problems disappear when you finally get to their legal department, i.e. to people who got their education in the real world.

 

Gehobener Dienst = staff from one of the Finanzamt's Fachhochschulen. Open only to their own employees, teaching staff appointed from among their own. Academical level? Who knows, they are not very transparent. But from what I've heard, nearly everybody who starts also graduates.

 

Höherer Dienst = staff that has a degree from an independent university with independent professors and where exams are competitive. They only join the state service after getting their degree.

 

I only know of an uni colleague, who deservedly failed his first year uni exams, but then went into state service, attended their Fachhochschule and became a successful Betriebsprüfer at the Finanzamt - he was a nice guy, but bright he wasn't.

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From a technical-legal standpoint a degree from a Finanzakademie is equivalent to any other bachelor's degree.

 

If you work in a legal department somewhere as legal attendant (not just in public service) it's usually because you never finished your second Staatsexamen...

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I don't know, at least in Munich I found their lawyers to be very able, one even had a PhD, so I assume that he was a Volljurist.

After all, it's harder to do a PhD than to cram in a Repetitorium and pass the Staatsexamen ;)

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I've received no official reply to my last letter yet but yesterday I got a "vorauszahlungsbescheid über Einkommensteuer und Solidaritätszuschlag" for 2014 (attached) that apparently says I gotta pay 0,00 in 2014.

I'm not sure if this means they are actually accepting my objection regarding my income in 2012 since this letter doesn't reference my objection at all and the first one was specifically a "Bescheid für 2012".

I am again a bit confused but I am taking this as a good sign and hopefully another statement will come in the mail clarifying the situation..

post-244179-13946173840856_thumb.jpg

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Just for comparison.. this is the one I got in February. Still not sure how they calculated the amounts they thought I had to pay.

post-244179-13946178175007_thumb.jpg

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Nothing really, just my address, and the object which is "Vorauszahlungsbescheid über Einkommensteuer und Solidaritätszuschlag" .. and this is what comes after. Nothing else.

 

The first one I got, the Bescheid for 2012, was much more detailed.

post-244179-13947047795062.png

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Update: I finally received an updated "Bescheid für 2012" and I have to pay ZERO for both Einkommensteuer and Solidaritätszuschlag!

So your strategy worked perfectly Pandamunich! Again thank you so much for your help, that was seriously amazing. I was hoping for some help when I first posted here but I definitely didn't expect this much.

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Hello,

just one quick question: has anything changed in the last years?

 

To double/triple check that I got it right:D: Tax residence and main source of income in Germany + side income from a rental property in Italy (of course taxed in Italy) => No need to mention the "italian profit" in the german Steuererklärung.

 

Thanks!

 

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