Public vs. private health insurance

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On the subject of costs, you hear private is cheaper when people are younger, but more expensive when older. Can someone actually quantify this young vs old cost?

 

So for example

Aged 40, premium = 500 Euros. How much would they (likely) be paying at 70?

That's like 30 years worth of guessing I know, but I was just wondering....

A simple 1% annual increase in rate, is 673 Euros by +30 years, yet I am guessing this is too little?

At 2%, in 30 years this is already 905 Euros a month.

 

Even a simple graph of age vs premium might give some insight into how much private really costs into old age.

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Once you joined a private insurance the age you joined at will still be relevant for calculating your premium as long as your contract remains active,  even decades later. However, prices will rise due to "medical inflation", which nobody can predict. E.g. the premium for my private top-up insurance  which I took out in 1985 has quadrupled until now.

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41 minutes ago, scook17 said:

On the subject of costs, you hear private is cheaper when people are younger, but more expensive when older. Can someone actually quantify this young vs old cost?

 

So for example

Aged 40, premium = 500 Euros. How much would they (likely) be paying at 70?

That's like 30 years worth of guessing I know, but I was just wondering...

A simple 1% annual increase in rate, is 673 Euros by +30 years, yet I am guessing this is too little?

At 2%, in 30 years this is already 905 Euros a month.

 

Even a simple graph of age vs premium might give some insight into how much private really costs into old age.

 

Asked and answered in this very thread:

 

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On 1.8.2021, 15:09:10, scook17 said:

On the subject of costs, you hear private is cheaper when people are younger, but more expensive when older. Can someone actually quantify this young vs old cost?

 

So for example

Aged 40, premium = 500 Euros. How much would they (likely) be paying at 70?

That's like 30 years worth of guessing I know, but I was just wondering...

A simple 1% annual increase in rate, is 673 Euros by +30 years, yet I am guessing this is too little?

At 2%, in 30 years this is already 905 Euros a month.

 

Even a simple graph of age vs premium might give some insight into how much private really costs into old age.

 

If you were to compare 2 people applying for insurance today where one is 40 and the other is 70, you can do that at https://www.check24.de/private-krankenversicherung/

This may not tell you however how much the 40 year old will pay in 30 years if he stays with the same insurance.  Surely his rates will go up but maybe he will get some good will if he's healthy, possibly bad will if he's getting sick a lot.

 

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The truth: nobody bloody knows the future. Neither with public nor private insurance. It doesn't matter what anyone says.

Who knows what the system will be like in two years- let alone in 20 or 30 or 40 years. 

People overthink the future...

I am a professional independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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5 minutes ago, john g. said:

The truth: nobody bloody knows the future. Neither with public nor private insurance. It doesn't matter what anyone says.

Who knows what the system will be like in two years- let alone in 20 or 30 or 40 years. 

People overthink the future...

I am a professional independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser. Contact me.

 

True, you can have all kinds of plans today and tomorrow you might have an accident or become seriously ill making all your plans useless.

 

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A different question is: what if the guy who is 40yr old today is curious about today's premium for his 70yr old dad?

 

Screenshot (222).png

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Here´s another fun fact for those who are (like me) unwillingly Privately insured in the German Health system. You will probably receive doctor bills after going to be vaccinated against Covid 19, even though it is specifically stated Nationally that it is a free vaccionation campaign and that the country will pick up the tab. Of course there will be no charge for the vaccine itself, just trumped up charges for Sprachstunden, hygene, special requirements for Corona virus time etc. Have any other members had this happen to them yet? My Hausärzt is trying to charge a fraction under €300 euros to me and my wife for the 2, 10 minute visits we made to getr vaccinated. Of course the Health insurance refuse to pay as the campaign is "free"....Ufff!

I hate Private Health Insurance and this is exactly why.

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7 minutes ago, jimmycoffee said:

Here´s another fun fact for those who are (like me) unwillingly Privately insured in the German Health system. You will probably receive doctor bills after going to be vaccinated against Covid 19, even though it is specifically stated Nationally that it is a free vaccionation campaign and that the country will pick up the tab. Of course there will be no charge for the vaccine itself, just trumped up charges for Sprachstunden, hygene, special requirements for Corona virus time etc. Have any other members had this happen to them yet? My Hausärzt is trying to charge a fraction under €300 euros to me and my wife for the 2, 10 minute visits we made to getr vaccinated. Of course the Health insurance refuse to pay as the campaign is "free"...Ufff!

I hate Private Health Insurance and this is exactly why.

 

This was being discussed on the coronavirus thread as well, see https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/386478-coronavirus/?do=findComment&comment=3892019

Somebody else got a bill too. 

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Yep, but nobody seems to be able to answer with any kind of pragmatism whether it is legally require to pay it or not. Personally, if it had been like €15 i wouldn´t have worried about it, but no one likes being ripped off. I´m sure I´m not the only one who already pays large premiums and still has to fight doctors for overcharging regularly.

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Jimmy,

We filled in a form online, got an appointment with a vaccination centre, which was a local church hall. Went there and got vaccinated. No one asked for my insurance details, or for that matter for anyone else I know who went there. Sounds like you should pick another doctor.

 

 

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On 03/08/2021, 07:27:31, Gambatte said:

A different question is: what if the guy who is 40yr old today is curious about today's premium for his 70yr old dad?

 

Nice plot. Are those figures for someone taking out a new policy, or what I should expect when I am 70?

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Actually, scook17, that is a common question.  " I am 40 now and am privately insured or considering it. What will I pay when I'm 70?"

Nobody asks " I am publicly insured now and I am 40. What will I pay when I am 70?"

 

There is a simple, honest answer- nobody knows. But it will cost more than now in both systems even though nobody knows if both systems as they exist right now will exist in 30 years' time.

 

 

 

I am a professional independent insurance broker and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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13 hours ago, scook17 said:

or what I should expect when I am 70?

Of course they are not, nobody knows the future. It says in the X axis: how much you would be paying if you were of some age TODAY. This is of course not the exact information one would like to have to make a plan. Just random curiosity.

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very interesting topic! I just had that discussion with my daughter.


32 years old, highly successful independent tattoo artist, healthy, married, no plans to ever have children. Before she started her own business, she had been an employee for years - last job was Service Manager at a popular night-club - and was a member of TK public health insurance. TK offered her the option of staying within public insurance at a monthly premium of well over 700 €. Being self-employed she would have to pay the full amount. No reasonable person would think, that this is a good deal. So she checked out private health insurance options and picked one that offered the extras she is most interested in. She will be paying around 300 € per month for that now.

 

Back in the day, when I was her age, my situation was very different - but I too faced that same decision: stay in the public system, or go with private health insurance? I was an employee, working a full time job and making well above the "Beitragsbemessungsgrenze/Versicherungspflichtgrenze" of about 2000 € per month which were identical back then (until 2002). I paid half of the maximum premium (the other half came from my employer) - some 150 € a month for me and my first husband, who was unemployed at the time. Since we were planning our first child, and I didn't see him finding a job any time soon, I remained in the public system.   

 

Of course we have no crystal ball to see the future - but a few things seem to be relatively "constant" factors:

  • for public health insurance your age or physical condition is irrelevant, your premiums are calculated as a percentage of your income.
  • for private health insurance your premiums are a function of several individual factors: your age, your gender, your health condition, whether you have children or not

So, if you believe your personal circumstances may/will change drastically in the near future (you will make less money, you will get sick, you want to have children, you are about to turn 50), you might want to stay in (or try to get into) public health insurance for the financial security. 

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Isn't the KVdR status by far the cheapest way to be health insured once you reach statutory retirement age here? It seems logical to me to always bear that in mind if one is going to stay in Germany in retirement (or if there's even a reasonable possibility of it). Whatever happens in future, I cannot see a situation where KVdR becomes even remotely as expensive as private health insurance. It would be political suicide to target vast swathes of the elderly population (who vote in the greatest numbers) like that. The numbers privately insured in old age (and without generous Beihilfe as is the case with Beamten etc.) are surely a fraction of the total voting public. They can continue to be hung out to dry with few political consequences I expect.

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even if you can't get into KVdR - because you may not be able to fulfill that crazy requirement of 90% of the second half of your working years - your premium is still just a percentage of your income if you stay as a voluntary member of GKV.

 

Which is why - even if you are currently in a situation where private insurance is better for you - you want to make a plan to get back into public health insurance once you are closer to 50. (unless the rules change again, you need to be well under 55 when you make that move)

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How does all this work when you retire?

I'd expect that if a person has private insurance they will still have to pay the premium etc themselves. 

What about the public system, does the premium come out of their pension, do they only pay half (with the retirement system paying the other), is the premium total covered as part of their pension?  

 

I'd look it up online but we have a few finance/insurance bods on here, which is online, so I guess I am actually looking it up online, right now... 

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Of course there are many things you can't know.

For example, at what age will you pass away?

The younger, the better off you are with private of course, because you will "save" the more expensive years.

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