Repeating the school year (sitzenbleiben)

[nilpoints 33]

Good morning TT

 

I am on the scrounge for advice again please.

Daughter passed the year last year with mainly 3s, a couple of 2s and a 4 in maths.

So it was a relief and an average report but okay with that.

From what I understand repeating the year in any case sucks as it is boring to do the same stuff all over again.

Not sure if they repeat the same tests - I was not astute enough to make copies of them in any case.

 

To get to the point...My kid has a mixture of marks so far 1 and 3 in English, 4 and 5 in German, 2 in Science, 3 in Music, 4 in Maths. Not brilliant but improvable over the year.

She is struggling with the maths though.

 

Where she is you can either 1. keep going and wait and see if you pass the year

2. fail in July and repeat the whole year in September 2014

3. admit defeat now and start repeating the previous year you passed January 2014 but I guess the advantages to that are that you have two terms to gel with the new class and then you repeat the current year you are failing alongside your peers as opposed to meeting them afresh in the September as the one who failed in July.

 

Has anyone done this? i.e opted to move down a year two terms earlier and did it help at all? Would you still have made that decision in retrospect?

 

Thanks in advance x

[nina_glyndwr 4,748]

I am not qualified to give you any advice on your three questions.

 

However, what I would say is 'get a maths tutor'.

 

When I was 16, we had mock exams - of the exams we would be taking in the summer - the O levels/GCSE type exams (like Mittlere REife here).

 

Anyway, I got 27% - and I was in the top group of 6 groups. But the problem is that there was always something in each year that I hadn't understood. Whenever I said to the teacher "Sir, sir, I don't understand", he would just say "Oh, you will one day."

 

Well, that day never came. So I asked a 6th former (2 years above me) for help and he was delighted to do so. I told him what I had not understood in each of the last five years and he explained them to me and it was WONDERFUL. All of a sudden, I could understand things. He even gave me little tests every now and then (while he would go into the living room and practise his German with my German mum).

 

Thanks to him - I started putting my hand up in class again. Thanks to him, I got a B rather than the C my maths teacher had predicted. Thanks to him, I even registered for the CSE in Arithmetic and passed with a 1.

 

So that is what I would advise your daughter to do.

[engelchen 13,039]

How old is she? In which grade is she? How long have you been in Germany? How was she in math before you moved here?

 

Repeating a grade in Germany does not carry the same stigma as in many other countries and happens more frequently than in other countries.

[katheliz 17,879]

It's worth repeating the year just to get your little girl more experience in the German language. nina's advice about a math tutor is good, too. I think all of my older children repeated a class after we got to Germany, and one child went through fifth grade three times, twice in Germany.

[Gwaptiva 7,116]

In my day and in the education system I grew up in, being kept back a year was quite normal (out of 60 people that I did Abitur(-equivalent) with only about 10-15 had not been kept back at one point or another). Yes, it was a big shock (you have to get your head around the fact that you'll be in a new class, not just for the next year, but for all the following years), but I think it was the right thing for me back then.

 

I doubled my 8th grade; up until then, everything academic had just been automatic for me, no challenges, and when then the challenges suddenly arrived, I was completely unprepared, didn't know how to study (I still don't), was too childish, etc etc. In fact, they should've kept me back a year earlier, so I would've had a more solid basis in subjects like maths.

 

In short, to me, being kept back isn't the end of the world. Not sure how it would work though to move back down.

[nilpoints 33]

Hello again

 

She is currently in year 6. She has spent over half her life here. Her Übertrittszeugnis she got a 1 in maths and 2 in German. Top quartile in maths in vera tests in primary. Gone downhill from there, just so so hard so so quickly.

3 in German in July as Bericht and fantasy story were not so good as first two terms where she got a 2.

The German now 4 and 5 less problematic as she resat the 4 and got a 2, and the 5 was the Jahrgangsstufe and counts as an ex. She just needs to do well on the next test, fable, and hope he hasn't marked her card already.

The Maths is the main worry and now, having read what Nina said, I am going to have to do what she suggests, even though daughter is not happy about it... Maybe I can swap English for Maths? Financially not broke but not rich either so need to find someone who is not going to break the bank. A student in higher grade might be the answer Nina. How much would you expect to pay and if a year 12 student for example is it cash or does that count as Schwarzarbeit?

Thanks again xxx

 

Thanks for the replies from all - it does help.

I am not against resitting a year at all and know it is not the end of the world. I just do not know whether to sit out the year and see what happens and whether with a tutor she could up the maths and German...or whether I should pull the plug now so that she has 7 months to make friends in a new class as opposed to after a year when they have completely gelled as a class.

[noodle76 216]

 

A student in higher grade might be the answer Nina. How much would you expect to pay and if a year 12 student for example is it cash or does that count as Schwarzarbeit?

 

At my eldest's school the school arranges this kind of tutoring, and it costs 5 Euro per lesson, cash in hand.

 

I would also suggest tutoring, from what you've said. Kids who repeat a year don't necessarily 'get' the maths the second time round either, if it is not taught in a way that suits them. My daughter's friend is repeating the year and doing just as badly so far as she did last year, which doesn't leave you in a good situation.

[nilpoints 33]

Cheers noodle and others.

Am going to see if i can get a tutor.

Am also going to let her do the whole year and see what happens as resitting two terms you passed just for the socialisation aspect won't give her the heads up on the rest of year 6. At least if she resits Sept 2014 the current year she will know what is coming up in all three terms.

Plus she might surprise me! Miracles do happen... [wink]

[jb2 13]

In Bayern (not sure about other Laender) there is the possibility of a 'freiwillige Ruecktritt'. I'm not sure of the exact date, but it's sometime in December, possibly the end of term. If it is felt that a pupil is struggling with the grade, then they can move back to the previous grade then. The advantage of this is that it doesn't have the same effect as a compulsory repeat. If a pupil fails and repeats grade 6, then they can't repeat grade 7. If they voluntarily repeat a grade then they can repeat the following grade.

[engelchen 13,039]

 

Am going to see if i can get a tutor.

 

I think you should look into getting her a tutor for math and German. If she is struggling with the language, it could impact her ability to understand her other subjects as well.

[brokenm 37]

I would be very careful of indicating to your teachers that you believe the issue lies with your daughter and not with their teaching ability. Teachers are notorious for giving grades/notes to children based on prior performance (before they even enter the classroom). By having your child sit back a year, she will be deemed a poor student by the teachers.

 

I would rather, hire tutors, spend time with your daughter helping with the homework, discussing with the teachers how best to work with them. Each child learns at a different rate and needs a different approach to learning. Help your daughter with her needs, and ignore the restrictive advice from a teacher.

 

The way, I look at it is-if the previous teachers were not able to teach her, why go back to the same ones? Would you take your car back to the same mechanic who passed your inspection when your car breaks down right afterwards?

[nilpoints 33]

Hello again

 

Daughter has just come through the door with a 4 in her Maths Aufgabe and a 3 in her German ex so we have a slight improvement.

 

jb2 many thanks for the info. I am in Bayern, yes. I was referring to this freiwillige Rücktritt in December but I had not realised that it did not count as a resit. That is vital info thank you and explains a lot. God I am naive. I had also forgotten you can only resit once in the Unterstufe. Her friend is moving schools in December which I guess has the same result without the stigma. We use mathe gym. The topics eg Potenze and Fractions are more than just an extension though of the basics - it feels like the difference between GCSE and AS level.

 

engelchen her German comprehension-wise is as good as her English, she just needs to stop coasting like she gets away with in her mother tongue.

 

brokenm very good point about the teaching staff - she would get the same wouldn't she? The teachers are difficult to gauge to be honest - there is a recognised difficulty with in the maths dept, they even had a parents' evening about it, but as a former teacher in the UK I always side with the teacher first as opposed to being 'that' parent! It does remind me a bit of uni though - you are expected to understand and if you don't, well, do the research.

Maybe the current resitters are being labelled - one is being Verweised and abgefragt a lot.

 

Hmmm...thanks everyone. Am off to ponder and not helicopter parent, oh no, not me xxx

[Feierabend 1,127]

My boys were getting those kind of shaky marks and with hindsight I think I should have got tutoring at that stage of their schooling here.It's such a tricky age and unless or until they find their own motivation to put in extra effort things can really go downhill. Ironically, being a teacher myself I never wanted to interfere too much, and listened to the school who said no need to get Nachilfe, they're bright enough and just need to make more effort. One did, one didn't and it caused no end of problems at the 16-17 year old stage.

[Rebecca 880]

Maths is a subject that gets progressively harder each year so you would do well to find a good Maths tutor now. It's not her strongest subject and it may not be the schools strongest either so extra help will make a big difference now and when it's harder.

 

My daughter always got 1 for maths but now in Year 9 (algebra, calculus etc.) she is more challenged by it and getting 2. When she got 4 for French in Year 8 we decided it was time to start Nachhilfe and it has made a difference, doesn't cost too much time really as she is able to do the French homework much quicker now.

 

It's normal for grades to go down a bit when kids make the transition to big school but a 4 is really a warning sign.

 

There is a website called Bettermarks which my kids have both used as part of their Maths homework.

[CarolynS 139]

Hi there,

 

This is good information but does it also apply to third grade I wonder? Anyone have experience with repeating in Grundschule?

 

At the suggestion of my daughter's teacher we're considering having her repeat third grade, not because of her marks (she gets 2s and 3s with tutoring), but for her maturity level. She's probably a normal level of unorganized, forgetful, emotional, and stubborn, but in the German school system, that may keep her from making it into and through Gymnasium, which is where she wants to go.

 

I understand repeating fourth grade is not allowed. Does opting to (not having to) repeat third grade carry any stigma latter on?

 

Thanks.

[robinson100 12,771]

Repeating third grade won't matter at all later on - your daughter will be in a different school, probably with different kids for the most part, so it will make no difference whatsoever.

I would strongly suggest that you talk to your daughter about the option to repeat a year and see what she says - for some, it might be the end of the world, whilst for others it could be the best thing possible! Also, there is nothing worse for a child than to feel totally left-out of the decision-making process.

Shorty repeated a year, and it was the best thing that could have happened to her - she was being "mobbed" in her old class and it gave her the opportunity to move to a different class with a different group of kids...

[CarolynS 139]

Thanks so much robinson100. I was thinking how to "present" this decision to her but including her is absolutely the best idea. We have mobbing issues too, and she has wanted to move to a new class.

[wien4ever 446]

Can I as a parent ask for the school to have my children repeat a grade? Is that allowed ?

 

Due to Corona, I am contemplating asking the teacher if my twin kids can repeat the school year (Klasse 3). I got their half-year notes last week: 1-2 Math, 3 and 3- in Deutsch, 1 in English, 3 Sachunterricht, 2-3 Kunst, 2-3 Musik, 2 Sport (they have nearly identical report cards).

 

Would repeating hurt their chances to get in Gymnasium? I am hoping to get them in Gymnasium eventually and I think repeating the year will help prepare them better. Our local Gymnasium will have the option to have several classes taught in English and they also can choose Spanish which is my other native language. With Deutsch I must admit I struggle to support them and I have hired a tutor to help them fill some gaps, but during Corona this tutoring has sort of fallen apart. The school is really not that proactive enough during home-schooling other than sending out homework and providing web apps, (30 mins of videoconferencing per week, sometimes even less!). I just feel that we as foreigners are taking a harder hit when it comes to Deutsch home-schooling. I will ask for an appointment with the teacher/principal to discuss with them how we can help the kids bump their Deutsch grades up ( I would be happy with a 2! ). I worry as 4th grade is coming and this will be crucial for the recommendation to secondary schooling.

 

 

 

 

[keith2011 2,496]

I can't help wondering if at this point it would be best for all concerned if governments around the world were to suspend all schooling and just restart the year again next September (Uni's too).

[SJ1 2,050]

I was told from the director that there was no disadvantage to repeating a grade during the pandemic. My son will be repeating the fourth grade. I just had to submit a written request.