A single tear for the Makler: Provision in the crosshairs

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So one more good thing might come out of the coalition talks.

 

http://www.handelsblatt.com/finanzen/immobilien/nachrichten/koalition-und-makler-mieter-zahlen-bald-keine-provision-mehr/9029050.html

 

The whole odd upfront Provision thing was a rather irritating aspect of the market here. This seems like a good update to the model.

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I read the article and came across this passage

 

Bereits heute werde die Maklergebühr nur in den angespannten Wohnungsmärkten wie Köln, Bonn oder Düsseldorf vom Mieter bezahlt, ergänzte Erik Uwe Amaya von Haus & Grund Rheinland. In allen anderen Teilen des Landes sei es bereits üblich, dass der Vermieter die Maklercourtage übernimmt. Grund hierfür sei, dass die Wohnungsmärkte in Deutschland sehr unterschiedlich seien.

 

Apparently there are only estate agency fees levied in the flat markets such as Cologne, Bonn or Duesseldorf due to the fraught availability. In all other parts of the country the estate agency fee is paid by the landlord/lady.

 

Anybody here in Munich have their estate agency fee paid for them (apart from those who got relocated)?

 

I don't somehow think so, but I am all for it.

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such as

means "including, but not limited to, the named examples". Of course Munich is an "angespannter Markt", with the highest growth rates in Germany and a huge shortage of affirdable accommodation. Why would you think Munich would be excluded?

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We moved house in Bonn recently, and it was the first time we'd ever gone through an estate agent. I baulked a bit at having to pay his commission on top of all the costs of moving, but he lets people pay in up to 24 monthly installments. That was a pleasant surprise.

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Though the whole thing makes me, on the one hand, breathe a sigh of relief, this:

 

 

In Ballungsgebieten, wo die Mietnachfrage hoch ist, dürfte hingegen die Maklergebühr in die Kalkulation der Miete einfließen. Denn hier seien Interessenten bereit, sogar eine höhere Miete in Kauf zu nehmen.

Looks like those of us who are (far) less than "Normalverdiener" still have to consider moving outside of the city if forced to move for whatever reason.

 

Renting is crazy in these regions and just a game of luck for a lot of us, regardless of what they do with the Provision. :unsure:

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we recently paid Provision in a not so expensive city and it was a waste of money. however the wife terribly wanted the flat. This principle of whoever employing the Makler also paying is fair in my opinion.

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I read the article and came across this passage

 

Bereits heute werde die Maklergebühr nur in den angespannten Wohnungsmärkten wie Köln, Bonn oder Düsseldorf vom Mieter bezahlt, ergänzte Erik Uwe Amaya von Haus & Grund Rheinland. In allen anderen Teilen des Landes sei es bereits üblich, dass der Vermieter die Maklercourtage übernimmt. Grund hierfür sei, dass die Wohnungsmärkte in Deutschland sehr unterschiedlich seien.

 

Apparently there are only estate agency fees levied in the flat markets such as Cologne, Bonn or Duesseldorf due to the fraught availability. In all other parts of the country the estate agency fee is paid by the landlord/lady.

 

Anybody here in Munich have their estate agency fee paid for them (apart from those who got relocated)?

 

I don't somehow think so, but I am all for it.

 

Sorry but this just makes me laugh. I never heard of a landlord paying the Makler. I'm in Baden-Wuerttemberg, rural area. Never heard of such an event. :unsure:

 

I agree this would be a wonderful thing, and that is an example of exactly the kind of issue the SPD should pay attention to.

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Both in Hamburg and Schleswig Holstein, the (hefty) Makler Courtage had to be paid by us.

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While I hate Makler deeply, and never use them (as a landlord and as a tenant), I'm not too sure simply shifting the cost to the landlord will solve the problem. Maybe partly, but I fear most landlords will add the Makler fee to the rent, increasing the upward rent spiral...

 

It sure would be nice if legislation here would take a good hard look at the Maklers themselves, who work without the slightest qualification or scruples, on nobody's side but their own. Parasites.

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Rent increases have their limits, the local Mietspiegel. I guess once the landlords will have to pay the Makler they will offer more contracts which are rather to the disadvantage of the renter like minimum lease periods and the like.

 

While I'm sure no friend of the typical Makler for apartments I wouldn't call them all parasites. Especially when it comes to the B2B-side where their services are a real help, for both sides. Like if your company, based in Munich, would like to expand to Hamburg and is looking for office spaces there.

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Yep - in a separate agreement that the grand coalition have agreed on in principle is that rent cannot be more than 10% above the Mietspiegel. I would assume that both will happen.

 

Even without this limit, landlords would probably be more likely to bypass a Makler, because if the tenant moves out before this difference is recovered, then the landlord loses out - he carries the risk.

 

I don't think that minimum rental periods would be the result, because I honestly think that landlords use Maklers at the moment because they're free for them and it's easier. If they start costing money or it means that landlords have to find some way of trying to recover the money, or keep tenants locked in for minimum periods, then I think they'll just ditch them and just do it themselves, rather than finding some way to still involve them.

 

I can see Makler fees going way down, because landlords will still prefer not to have to do it themselves, but the fees will be a better reflection of the time and effort that they actually put in.

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Sometimes, actually quite often, landlords don't live in the same town as the apartment they want to rent out is. Here a Makler is almost indispensable if you don't want to spend a fortune on traveling costs. Other landlords engage a Makler to sort out a bit the potential renters, which they believe a Maklers can do better as they themselves.

 

I agree, Makler fees (for the Landlords) will go down a good piece, maybe just one rent instead of two. Actually, it will lead to some sort of competition which doesn't exist right now (on the hous/apartment market).

 

But wait, the new law is just an idea until now.The project might get well abandoned in the ongoing wheeeling-dealing called Koalitionsverhandlungen. If the IVD, Verband Deutscher Immobilienmakler, makes a decent donation to the CDU/CSU we might never this happen.

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If maklers aren't too work-shy, perhaps they could move to the UK model where estate agents handle advertising, viewings, management of property for the landlord and charge around 10% of the rent each month (out of the landlord's whack).

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@kludgie:

Oh yes, it would be so great if we finally had *real property managers* here. I'm all for the UK/US model.

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I read the article and came across this passage

 

Bereits heute werde die Maklergebühr nur in den angespannten Wohnungsmärkten wie Köln, Bonn oder Düsseldorf vom Mieter bezahlt, ergänzte Erik Uwe Amaya von Haus & Grund Rheinland. In allen anderen Teilen des Landes sei es bereits üblich, dass der Vermieter die Maklercourtage übernimmt. Grund hierfür sei, dass die Wohnungsmärkte in Deutschland sehr unterschiedlich seien.

 

Apparently there are only estate agency fees levied in the flat markets such as Cologne, Bonn or Duesseldorf due to the fraught availability. In all other parts of the country the estate agency fee is paid by the landlord/lady.

 

Here in Germany, I have lived in four different cities no where near Cologne, Bonn, or Duessldorf and every apartment I paid an immobilien. Not because I wanted to, but because I had to find a nice apartment or house expeditiously .

 

A quick look around Immobilienscout 24 you can see immobiliens are charging fees in many housing markets around Germany.

 

When we moved a couple of months ago to Wiesbaden, we paid an immobilien 6,000 Euros for our flat.

 

Then the immobiliens had the audacity to ask us to write them a letter of reference as they were looking at ways to improve their business with testimonies from their clients on their website.

 

I didn't write shit.

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Sometimes, actually quite often, landlords don't live in the same town as the apartment they want to rent out is. Here a Makler is almost indispensable if you don't want to spend a fortune on traveling costs. Other landlords engage a Makler to sort out a bit the potential renters, which they believe a Maklers can do better as they themselves.

 

True - and they can be useful then. However this is making the life of the landlord easier, not the tenant, so it's completely wrong that the tenant has to pay for this.

 

 

I agree, Makler fees (for the Landlords) will go down a good piece, maybe just one rent instead of two. Actually, it will lead to some sort of competition which doesn't exist right now (on the hous/apartment market).

 

It wouldn't surprise me if it was even less than that. An €800 a month flat is very common in, say Munich. With MwSt on top, it's about €1000. For that, I would expect someone to do a full 40 hour week, working on nothing but that. Clearly, it doesn't take anywhere near that much work to find a tenant - particularly in a place where demand massively outstrips supply.

 

 

But wait, the new law is just an idea until now.The project might get well abandoned in the ongoing wheeeling-dealing called Koalitionsverhandlungen. If the IVD, Verband Deutscher Immobilienmakler, makes a decent donation to the CDU/CSU we might never this happen.

 

Yep. It's ever changing, so not home-free on this yet. If the coalition talks did actually collapse, then the SPD could do worse than to introduce this as an election promise. In fact, I'm surprised they didn't do it last time...

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As for making the life of the landlord easier by using a Makler, we recently rented out our rental property ourselves and ate over a month's rent because of it. We had an open house and got applications from about 30 people who really wanted it. They came prepared with Schufa, pay slips, ID's and references. We chose who we thought were the best candidates and narrowed it down to one. We liked them all so this was difficult.

 

Unfortunately for us, we had to work our way down the list as each candidate needed a few days to meet up to sign the contract for various reasons and then decided they didn't really want it.Three weeks later, we wound up with one who still wanted it. Himself had to drive to 3 hrs. to where she was on a business trip to do the contract signing and get her money.

 

When we originally bought the property, we had the Makler that we used rent it out for us immediately. He found a very good renter who paid on time for 7.5 years.

 

While I hate the idea of using a Makler as much as the next person and we wanted to be fair and not use one, we may reconsider in the future. As much as apartments are in demand in Munich, we experienced potential tenants begging for us to pick them and then blowing us off. Effectively, we lost a month's rent doing it ourselves and this was after the flat being empty for 2 months during a complete renovation.

 

People are quick to judge and say what they would do if they were a landlord. It just isn't that simple. After all, it is a business.

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I know, I'm a landlord myself.

 

I didn't say get rid of Makler completely, but replace them with real property managers as in the US. I'll pay for real service.

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Property managers exist, of course. Take any Hausverwaltung. But in 99.9.% it's about not about collecting rents etc.

Why so?

 

The costs would reduce the profit. And since the average profit /interest isn't terribly high in Germany this would lead either to a poor investment or increased rents.

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I didn't say get rid of Makler completely, but replace them with real property managers as in the US. I'll pay for real service.

 

A lawyer/ real estate mogul/ slumlord friend of mine warned me that property managers are generally crap here in CA. Sure enough, the one which was assigned to us when the company relocated us to Germany did jack shit. I ended up finding the renters, and organized repairs, etc. myself, from abroad. Well, at least we didn't have to pay for his 'services'... What a racket!

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