Generali Vision can't charge when cancelling early

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http://boards.fool.co.uk/generali-vision-12828118.aspx?sort=whole#12828118

 

the web is full of examples where TCTMNBN sold this product to totally unsuitable customers.

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We were foolish enough to sign up for a Generali plan. In the age of the Internet, can't believe we got ourselves into the situation, but the salesman convinced us it was a wise move.

 

We are actually quite deep into plan, almost five years. It is supposed to run for 10 more, but given the feedback, would just like to be done with this.

 

If someone can recommend a good lawyer who may have experience with this situation, it would be great. At this point, paying a lawyer would still be money well spent versus trying to deal with this over a longer term.

 

Any help is appreciated.

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Couple of thoughts and info here for you and others in your situation:

 

1. when you write that you are in the plan now for around 5 years, I'll take it that you signed up sometime in 2009 or 2010, right? If this happened in this time frame AND in Germany, you have a very good chance to get the entire plan revoked in my opinion - especially if the plan was sold to you by "TheCompanyThatMustNotBeNamed" (TCTMNBN). Because in 2009 and 2010 they were falsly claiming to offer insurance advice/products under a sub-license from Belgium. Not only did this sub-license not exist (which I can prove from official documents from Belgium after a formal complaint from my side) but it would not have been valid anyway as said company was having offices/branches in Germany. Once you run an establishment in another EU-memberstate, it is not more covered by cross-border-passporting rights but falls under the local laws and regulation of the "host"-country. Germany has required a license under § 34 D GewO ever since 2007 - which this company and most others in this business have not had. TCTMNBN has this license now since Nov. 2013 only. So, the entire advice process was illegal to begin with and thus is nil&void

2. Furthermore, both German and EU laws demand for some time now that the initial costs of such plans have to be disclosed in full EUR with the quote, way before signing. This I have never seen ever in any documentation of the usual culprits. Again this gives you perfect legal chances to have the deal rescinded

3. last but not least the often only give you the crucial information about the cooling-off period way after it expired. Another typical trick. But that, again, makes the entire business illegal and your cooling-off period might actually still be running because of this serious legal fault on their side.

 

What you need to do - and I just wrote you that in answer to your PM, too - is collecting every little bit of evidence you still have. The initial info, quote, the copy from the application, any email or even hand-written notes you received or took down way back when. with all that we can estabilish that the entire advice process was illegal from front to end.

Once I have seen your evidence, I can guide you to specialized lawyers to help you getting your money back.

 

Cheerio

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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Hello, I am in a similar situation as many of you, signed up for a Generali Vision Plan in Dec 2008 for 25 years, when I was based in SWITZERLAND. I initially started with high premiums and later reduced them, which means that I am now paying 15% fees.

 

All I want is to get out of the contract as fast as possible but if I cancel now I would lose 30K and only be left with 10k, 25% of the money that I have invested, which is not an option.

 

Hence I am looking for a lawyer or any advise/experience from the people above that were in a similar situation. Have you advanced via lawyers in the meantime and have you had any results?

 

Would it make sense to bundle complaints? I have another friend in Switzerland in the same situation.

 

Starshollow, since you have given such great advice above, I have also send you a private email, hoping you can indicate me to the person in Switzerland who got his money back or a lawyer that could help.

 

Thanks so much in advance and best!

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just a short info: I have currently a few people who contact(ed) me recently with regards to Generali Vision and thecompanythatmustnotbenamed. The end of the year is about the busiest in my profession. Anything I do for victims of these offshore-sharks is pro bono. Therefore please understand that I won't be able to get back with you or any new or pending inquiry before January 12th at the earliest. Sorry.

 

Cheerio

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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Does anybody know if Generali who market the vision plan iin the Czech Republic is indeed allowed to operate and registered in the finance authorities in the Czech republic?

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Hi,

I started with Generali Vision 1 year ago and committed for 5 years. For what I see from the so called "comprehensive reports" that I receive monthly, things look not bad so far. The value steadily exceeds the contribution paid by 6% to almost 10%. My premium is affordable and I am confident I will be able to pay it til maturity. Am I not understanding something?

What should I expect at time of maturity?

let's say at time of maturity I will have paid contributions for 100 and the value will be 110 (I am not so optimistic but just to keep numbers simple), how much money should I expect to receive?

Thank you

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Does anybody know if Generali who market the vision plan iin the Czech Republic is indeed allowed to operate and registered in the finance authorities in the Czech republic?

 

Ideally you'll ask the Czech authorities yourself - you can do this online.

AFAIK Generali Vision is not licensed to operate/be sold to any EU-memberstate as they are located on one of the Channel Islands and therefore cannot take advantage of any passporting rights (cross-border-services) within the EU.

 

 

Hi,

I started with Generali Vision 1 year ago and committed for 5 years. For what I see from the so called "comprehensive reports" that I receive monthly, things look not bad so far. The value steadily exceeds the contribution paid by 6% to almost 10%. My premium is affordable and I am confident I will be able to pay it til maturity. Am I not understanding something?

What should I expect at time of maturity?

let's say at time of maturity I will have paid contributions for 100 and the value will be 110 (I am not so optimistic but just to keep numbers simple), how much money should I expect to receive?

Thank you

 

with only 5 years duration you are probably ok, because the costs for a 5-year plan are relatively mild (though still expensive in comparison to many other options available on the international markets !)

 

If during last year/last 12 months you have made only book-profits of between 6-10 %, though, the performance is way below MSCI World (which should be a benchmark for any selection of funds). Which means: if you would just have picked a low-cost index fund on the MSCI World, you would have had better performance at much lower costs. Therefore I would recommend asking your advisor based on what he picked/recommended the selected funds for you. And how your real costs actually are... ?

 

What is really important about how the Generali Vision plan is often sold thru incorrect/illegal/criminal advisors for instance here in Germany is this:

1) the longer duration you sign for, the higher the intial costs. If you sign up for 25-30 years duration - not uncommon for a pension plan - you'll pay the first 23-28 months in contributions before your money is actually invested ("initial period" according to the terms&conditions).

2) never sign up for a higher monthly contribution for the first months/years and then reduce your contribution. You'll be told that this plan is entirely flexible and that, yes, you can reduce your premiums at any time. But if you do, you'll still pay the costs/commissions in full based on the initial signed up monthly premium. I have seen cases where people only wanted to pay in high amounts for 1-2 years and then reduce to low monthly contributions and the plan was set up as if they would be paying the high initial contributions for 20 years to come, thus loosing them all the money from the first years.

3) make sure you ask the local authorities/regulators if the Generali Vision plan is actually allowed to be offered/sold in the country you are a resident. This is not the case for Germany and most (if not all) other EU memberstates. If someone says different (usually a commission hungry sales person) demand proof. In writing. From the local regulation authority! don't trust any other statements.

4) also make sure that the advisor who sells this to you is actually legally allowed/licensed to do this in the country to reside (if not, you may not have any chance to take him liable in case you find that you have been badly advised. Too often that is not the case either...

 

Cheerio

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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http://www.international-adviser.com/news/uk/devere-pays-190k-for-misselling

 

Nice to see TCTMNBN getting outed for their bad advice.

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Couple of thoughts and info here for you and others in your situation:

 

1. when you write that you are in the plan now for around 5 years, I'll take it that you signed up sometime in 2009 or 2010, right? If this happened in this time frame AND in Germany, you have a very good chance to get the entire plan revoked in my opinion - especially if the plan was sold to you by "TheCompanyThatMustNotBeNamed" (TCTMNBN). Because in 2009 and 2010 they were falsly claiming to offer insurance advice/products under a sub-license from Belgium. Not only did this sub-license not exist (which I can prove from official documents from Belgium after a formal complaint from my side) but it would not have been valid anyway as said company was having offices/branches in Germany. Once you run an establishment in another EU-memberstate, it is not more covered by cross-border-passporting rights but falls under the local laws and regulation of the "host"-country. Germany has required a license under § 34 D GewO ever since 2007 - which this company and most others in this business have not had. TCTMNBN has this license now since Nov. 2013 only. So, the entire advice process was illegal to begin with and thus is nil&void

2. Furthermore, both German and EU laws demand for some time now that the initial costs of such plans have to be disclosed in full EUR with the quote, way before signing. This I have never seen ever in any documentation of the usual culprits. Again this gives you perfect legal chances to have the deal rescinded

3. last but not least the often only give you the crucial information about the cooling-off period way after it expired. Another typical trick. But that, again, makes the entire business illegal and your cooling-off period might actually still be running because of this serious legal fault on their side.

 

What you need to do - and I just wrote you that in answer to your PM, too - is collecting every little bit of evidence you still have. The initial info, quote, the copy from the application, any email or even hand-written notes you received or took down way back when. with all that we can estabilish that the entire advice process was illegal from front to end.

Once I have seen your evidence, I can guide you to specialized lawyers to help you getting your money back.

 

Cheerio

​I too have been victimized by an IFA from a company I won't name (he seems to keep switching companies frequently) and have just fired off an email to Generali demanding my money back. I would also love to know the name of a good German lawyer who could be of help. I already have a German lawyer, a good one, but this might not be his expertise.

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​I too have been victimized by an IFA from a company I won't name (he seems to keep switching companies frequently) and have just fired off an email to Generali demanding my money back. I would also love to know the name of a good German lawyer who could be of help. I already have a German lawyer, a good one, but this might not be his expertise.

​When you write directly to Generali International they will just stall, deny and keep you hanging out to dry... even though they know that they are not even licensed to be sold/offered in Germany or other EU memberstates.

Would like to recommend the lawyer MATTIL.  He is an expert in finance and has helped hundreds or even thousands of people getting money back from missold investments. And he is in the know on these particular products because he is currently representing two of our clients who are victims of TCTMNBN.

Here is a link to the website: http://www.kaerner.de/

Cheerio

 

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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I am one more that was sold one of these policies. What is more, they encourage to start with a high initial contribution and then I reduced, finding out later that the fees apply based on the initial contribution, so the fees are just outrageous. A lot of fine print that is not explained by the "advisors". Any success story with lawyers against Generali (vision)?

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On 10/28/2015, 4:49:45, Deeks said:

I am one more that was sold one of these policies. What is more, they encourage to start with a high initial contribution and then I reduced, finding out later that the fees apply based on the initial contribution, so the fees are just outrageous. A lot of fine print that is not explained by the "advisors". Any success story with lawyers against Generali (vision)?

dont see any responses did you get anywhere with your vision policy ?? questions please 

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a German specialized lawyer is currently dealing with a lot of cases against TCTMNBN as a first step. After some time of playing possum they have recently answered legal letters from their German branch and their German lawyer is in the process of answering (at least it seems).

 

What we still need is someone who has a good legal insurance from the past that covers such a case so that we can take this to court. Because it is abundantly clear that any court case will rule in favour of the clients due to the numerous violations of the advisors (unlicensed products sold in Germany, no due dilligence for the clients as required by law, failure to disclose costs as require by law, in parts missing licenses for advisors to act in Germany at all...).

Any volunteers?

 

Cheerio

 

 

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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So I was called yesterday by some poor girl obviously sitting in a massive call centre.

 

She sounded like she was about to expire (stressed, not pronouncing words properly) and I could hear many people on the phone behind her.

 

I smelt a rat immediately but played along, mostly because I felt sorry for this girl.

 

Her "far more posh sounding" colleague then called me up about an hour ago for a more indepth discussion.

 

The usual stuff about QROPS, Malta and drawing your pension at 55.

 

I got the forms to fill out by email straight afterwards.   These are essentially authorities from me to TCTMNBN to get all my frozen pension details from my old UK pension providers.

 

ANOTHER call on the office mainline (the woman at reception is getting a bit irritated now) from the original "poor huffy girl" asking to ignore the forms and take some required details from me now because (a) its only some basic stuff that they need like National Insurance No. and (b) cos the the "courier is round and he's about to leave".

 

Poor things got a polite but firm "thanks but no thanks" from me within 20 secs.

 

BTW, Starshollows link to the YouTube about the TCTMNBN scan is brilliant and, I am proud to say, narrated in a really strong South African accent!

 

I do feel sorry for the battery-hens who need to earn a living doing this sort of soul-destroying "work".  I suppose I shouldn't, because they are instrumental in ripping honest people off.  But I doubt that they see much of TCTMNBN's profit margin.

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Dear Vicar, can you please forward to me any notes you took (i.e. received calls from which number and when) and especialy the email you received? I have this case pending with the German authorities now for some time and any additional proof of ongoing illegal activities is helpful. PM me for contact details.

 

Cheerio

 

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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Hi all,

 

Thought I'd throw my hat into the ring on this topic somewhat. I bought a Generali Vision 10 year plan, almost 10 years ago, when I was previously living in Asia. I am rather glad I had enough doubt about my circumstances and only went for 10 years! Current value is a bit under break-even, sadly. There have been times over the past ten years when it was as much as 50% up on the total payments, including early last year. Sadly it nose-dived. I have in fact only really made payments for about half of the 10 year period, and fortunately made the minimum payment for the first 3/4 years when I was initially paying before I couldn't afford to. I have recently started making payments again in order to maximise the "bonus" - which is currently looking quite useful since it *might* push me into the black, unless the value of the funds picks up (or sinks!).

 

In any case, not particularly looking for any advice, just thought I'd post about my experiences. Needless to say I'm not over-the-moon about the plan, but since I only committed for 10 years, and wasn't desperately in need of the money during that time it hasn't been a burden particularly. Of course, it would have been nice to have received a steady 6-8% during that time, but I am at least a little more financially literate now than I was when I was 25!

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The 5-10 year plans are not as horrendously expensive than the longer ones...still, too expensive to make a real profit even in good times at the stock exchanges as your example proves.
Question is: who needs such an "offshore pension plan" in the first place, i.e. does it offer any substantial tax benefits or other benefits that makes it worth spending so much money on costs and commissions? At least for residents of Germany, there are no such tax benefits available at all with a Generali Vision plan. The deferred taxation of your investments under the life assurance umbrella of the Generali Vision plan can be obtained by simple and direct investment into mutual funds or ETFs just alike while living in Germany. And while some German pension plans offer significant tax advantages to the investor (check RIESTER, RÜRUP and bAV Direktversicherung [company pension schemes] for more info to this regards), the Generali Vision plan is nothing but an overpriced and inflexible insurance plan under German laws. Plus: should you trade investment funds under the meagre life insurance umbrella of this plan, you could be facing  transparent taxation in Germany, i.e. profits made by the sale of funds in between could be taxable in Germany right away (need to check the terms and conditions of the Generali Vision plan in more detail to know for sure).

 

All in all: there is not one good reason for a tax resident of Germany to invest into the Generali Vision plan and many better reasons not to do so as there are less expensive and much more tax-effective options available as an alternative.

 

Cheerio

 

I am a professional independent insurance broker, financial adviser, and authorised advertiser. Contact me.
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My situation is very similar to @itsthejb

 

Bought a 10 year plan in Switzerland 9 years ago, which means 11 months still to go. Never requested a premium holiday (although I did reduce the monthly premium at some point, but re-raised it later), current value slightly above break-even.

Still this Generali Vision thing was definitely a mistake as we all know. Expensive and inflexible!

 

But my plan is to push through and hold the policy to maturity.

 

So my questions are:

 

1) @itsthejb : I guess your policy has become paid-up by now? If yes, was it difficult to get the proceedings transferred to your bank account? I kind of expect them to try everything they can not to wire you the money (rejecting documents/requests you submitted, making up all sort of excuses, ...)

 

2) @Starshollow Since I believe that in my case Swiss laws apply, does it even make sense to get a Rechtschutzversicherung now to be ready in 1 year to maybe fight a case in Switzerland while being a Germany resident?

 

 

 

 

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Hi @GordianKnot,

 

Happy to answer. In fact, you should not worry about them trying to swindle you at the end. It's a crappy plan, but they aren't outright criminals. My plan in fact matures this week, and they contacted me in Sep/Oct to request how I would like to proceed, including if I would like to cash out right away, including the relevant documents. So fear not!

 

As for me, I'm going to hold it a bit longer and see how things go next year. Again, don't urgently need the money. I will probably wait until it's at least a reasonable amount in the black. The funds have been growing, but I assume my gains whilst I was buying were pretty eaten up by the fees.  Also, quite fiddly since it's valued in Yen, I may cash it to a Yen account and wait for favourable exchange rate conditions.

 

Needless to say, my ongoing investment plan will be ETFs through DeGiro most likely as @Starshollow suggests. I have at least been paying into company pension plans over the past 6 years, so I haven't at least been wasting the time.

 

As an aside, this year was really the first year I got serious about investing for the future "properly" (I'm 36). Needless to say it has been a rough road and a steep learning curve, with plenty of sharks and piranha to avoid...

 

PS. I know at least one of the guys I was working with at the time I took this plan out signed up for 25 year as (at the time, I suppose) his main retirement plan. Shudder. With that I consider myself lucky, and try to take all these missteps as valuable lessons.

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