Swearing at people and insulting them is illegal

124 posts in this topic

Seconding Indiie's confusion. Heck, I can drive properly whilst actually rolling a fag.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know, but she clearly couldn't manuver her car between us and the parked cars (which is done every day) and she was holding her ciggy up and not trying to use two hands on the wheel to help her manuver. She also wouldn't hand it to her friend when she had trouble driving. So, I think she needed two hands as she was incapable of doing it with one, but she refused to use two hands until the other older gentelman came up and told her get back in her car and move it (so, the problem is really her attitude as she could have handed her ciggy to her friend if she needed two hands, but refused to do so)

 

I know I personally have a hard time manuvering in tight spaces with one hand (which is why I quit talking on the phone in the car long before it was illegal). My hubby, however, could probably drive through a maze with his toes.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if I send an email to company A and write that Company B is unprofessional can I be sued for insulting them? I have received a letter from the lawyer of company B to sign a Unterlassungserklärung and pay 2500€ as Schmerzensgeld + the fees for their lawyer. should I take this seriously and hire a lawyer?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You will need to go to a lawyer, because the letter you have received is from one so the only way to respond is in kind.

 

As I understand it, although you may not directly insult somebody you still have the right according to  "Grundgesetz für die Bundesrepublik Deutschland Art 5.1". which says

 

Quote

...Jeder hat das Recht, seine Meinung in Wort, Schrift und Bild frei zu äußern und zu verbreiten und sich aus allgemein zugänglichen Quellen ungehindert zu unterrichten...


So, as long as you have just expressed your opinion and not personally insulted or slandered somebody then you should be OK.  This should include stating that a company or personal in unprofessional so long as the reasons you present are valid, correct, and factual.  There is nothing in the law which states that the company must agree with your statement

 

Also, the law talks about unlawful attacks on a persons honour, but it is not clear what exactly this is.  So it is open to interpretation.  More info here:

https://www.anwalt.de/rechtstipps/beleidigung-boese-worte-und-ihre-strafrechtlichen-folgen_002994.html

 

Also, even if you have insulted them they would have to prove that their reputation has been damaged by these insults.  Simply being insulted is not enough.  This is very hard to prove in a court of law.

I don't know what you wrote but I would assume that they are just trying it on.  They don't like what you said and are trying to scare you.  Time to show them that you will not be bullied.

 

Go to a lawyer, get them to write a letter explaining all of this (which they can do much better) and also tell them to stop harassing you and making false accusations otherwise you will sue them!

 

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, turbidpancake said:

if I send an email to company A and write that Company B is unprofessional can I be sued for insulting them? I have received a letter from the lawyer of company B to sign a Unterlassungserklärung and pay 2500€ as Schmerzensgeld + the fees for their lawyer. should I take this seriously and hire a lawyer?

 

 

Also, if you wrote to company A how did company B become aware of this E-Mail?

 

If they have sent this to company B without your consent then they are also in breach of the data protection laws and you should report them for this!

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it a scam? Who invented 2500? I would be inclined to ignore it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Company A showed it to Company B and said sue his ass and we'll split the proceeds.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, turbidpancake said:

if I send an email to company A and write that Company B is unprofessional can I be sued for insulting them?

If you want answers you have to post the email. Nobody can assess that case without reading that email...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's my understanding that swearing and gesturing, is covered in Germany by the Law of Insult, so I would have thought the gesture or swearing would need to contain an insult.

For example, if I am crossing the road, its green, Im almost at the other side, it turns red.  Someone honks their horn?  I can give them the finger, signifying Fuck off, but I can't give them the finger, and tap it on my forehead, which means fuck off, you idiot.  The insult is the idiot part.  (Off-topic - the horn beeping is illegal as it's not to prevent an accident, its only to display annoyance)

Likewise, I can tell someone to "Fuck off".  But not tell them to "fuck off, you stupid prick".

Right? Swearing for the purpose of encouraging someone to leave you alone, or to go away, need not be an insult and by default, it shouldn't be seen as such.

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Fuck you may cause insult but its not inherently, by definition, an insult.

It's a demonstration at extreme displeasure - sure. - but a demonstration of extreme displeasure, also, is not an insult

You're a fucking retard.  That's an insult.

"Fuck you" is not inherently insulting.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Multiple courts have ruled that flipping someone off or even making the "you're cuckoo" sign (the German "Vogel zeigen", which differs from the US/UK "flipping the bird") at them counts as "Beleidigung". As @fraufruit suggested, if you told us what you've been accused of, we might be able to help. Expressing lay legal opinions will not.

 

Just off the top of my head, it occurs to me that if a driver honked at you while you were legally crossing the street, that could be considered Nötigung. Moreover, if the driver made rude/obscene gestures to you first, then the incidents tend to cancel each other out when reviewed by a judge or district attorney.

 

But this is all conjecture unless you provide more details, particularly how they were able to find you - a random person crossing the street without any uniquely identifying characteristics - in the first place.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, jasminer said:

"Fuck you" is not inherently insulting.

Oh I beg to differ. It most certainly is. Are you training to become a lawyer by any chance? You are trying to argue like one and it ain't washin'.

 

That's the biggest piece of failed BS I have seen in a looong time...

 

No, I do not wish to enter into the grammar and semantics. I can feel you coming on.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, jasminer said:

For example, if I am crossing the road, its green, Im almost at the other side, it turns red.  Someone honks their horn?  I can give them the finger, signifying Fuck off, but I can't give them the finger, and tap it on my forehead, which means fuck off, you idiot.  The insult is the idiot part.  (Off-topic - the horn beeping is illegal as it's not to prevent an accident, its only to display annoyance)

Likewise, I can tell someone to "Fuck off".  But not tell them to "fuck off, you stupid prick".

Right? Swearing for the purpose of encouraging someone to leave you alone, or to go away, need not be an insult and by default, it shouldn't be seen as such.

Have you tried to calm down and just cross the road without making a drama about it?

 

I have never used a horn in my life as a driver, and never gived a fuck about drivers using a horn as a pedestrian. Why would you want to get into a hefty argument with someone you are not even married to?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not training. Trained. Just not in Germany.  Australia,  7 years in corporate crime investigation for the Australian Government. 
The you're cuckoo sign is an insult.  Its a statement about that person.  It's not a direction to go away, leave me alone.
And of course I've not been charged with anything I'm just postulating.
There have multiple cases as well, where bird flippers have had no charges brought at all.

More recently, Vice Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel consciously ran the risk of being charged for insulting a neo-Nazi, when he gave the Stinkefinger to a young man hectoring him after a speech. He did not face charges — and later told public broadcaster ZDF that his only regret was not using both hands.

I don't know the basis for the lack of charges being brought, but i assume it's either that the two actions cancelled each other out, or that the finger was not deemed an actual insult.  Either way, giving the finger as a response to insult (Which blowing a horn could be inferred to be. "Move you stupid dickhead" the obvious connotation to someone crossing the road where the lights have changed...

Optimista. You've taken a strong position, without knowing the facts about me, or having any knowledge of the law yourself.
OK.  You do you.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

Have you tried to calm down and just cross the road without making a drama about it?

 

I have never used a horn in my life as a driver, and never gived a fuck about drivers using a horn as a pedestrian. Why would you want to get into a hefty argument with someone you are not even married to?

Please oh please, people. It an entirely hypothetical situation.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just remember: Keep it mostly clean and make it a question.

If they are trying to mow you down then take it up a notch and defend yourself..

 

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, jasminer said:

Fuck you may cause insult but its not inherently, by definition, an insult.

 

Litmus test - Would you say it to your nan?

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, fraufruit said:

 

Litmus test - Would you say it to your nan?

Might you be mixing the concepts of politeness and insult?

I am not claiming telling someone to fuck off is polite.  And seeking to always be polite to my Nan - I wouldn't use this to speak to her.  But again, telling someone to Fuck off is not more than a statement to go away, leave me alone, with emphasis.  Its impolite - granted, but as it makes no derogatory claim about the other person, there is no insult.

And the issue legally we are addressing is not the Law of Politeness, its the Law of Insult.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Peeps.  I am going to leave it there. Discussing what you think of my legal training, my actions in hypothetical situations or even the tone in which I speak to my Nan - these are all strawmen.  I can see from the post numbers some of you are here for the conversation and bless you, that's your right but I just came for a specific legal discussion.

From the lawyer person here who answered...giving the finger to someone honking their horn would likely be cancelling behavior.  Perhaps a finger given without provocation or initial insult would not survive the no insult test - or it might.  

So If I am crossing the street, light changes to red, and someone politely asks me to move along as quickly as I can and I give them the finger?  I'm less secure legally than if they had honked their horn.  There is no specific case law I could find that clarifies.

As I stated previously. It's a hypothetical.  I've got my answer. All the best.
 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now