Student teachers at Kitas

[muchado 158]

We just came back to our Kita after a long absence and noticed a very young male in the classroom. I was informed that he is the teen student teacher and will be with the kids twice a week for a year. Now, if I was to broach this subject with my friends back home, every radar would be on high alert and my friends would end up making me very anxious. As it is, this is sort of robbing my sleep because I don't know how to react to it because of the cultural differences. I know it's not supposed to be a big deal but for someone who has a daughter (although does gender really matter?), I am very apprehensive as to how much care this student will be doing. Will he be assisting in the bathroom? The lead teacher says no but if they need extra hands, yes.

Please help me understand this because I am sure I will come across this situation again and again. And I don't want to have a hissy fit because a teenager is in-charge of my kids. Can parents say or do anything about it? I doubt it but just need some perspective.

[mlovett 8,681]

There were a couple of teens in Jr's Kita, including males. I really didn't give it much thought. Should I have?

 

It's a trust issue. I guess either you trust those in charge [to select good help], or you don't. If the latter, then I must ask: did you give this Kita an extensive interview before you signed on? I did. I took the standard list of questions that one is supposed to ask in choosing an American preschool. I had additional questions because it was Lutheran, yet I am not.

 

My advice would be to chat with the teen... make up your own mind. Also, ask your child questions about the day. Kids that age will say so if something is not right.

 

Ultimately, unless homeschooling, we all must leave our kids in the care of 'strangers'. Have you had the "don't let anyone touch your private parts" discussion yet? Now might be the time, if you have any anxiety over this.

[robinson100 12,854]

Whilst I can appreciate your concerns, try looking at the other side of the coin - this lad has made the choice to enter a female-dominated profession, and should be congratulated!

A lot of kids entering KG miss having a male role-model around, like they do at home, and this lad automatically takes on that role simply by being there!

Ask a bunch of Kita kids what they want to do when they are older, and in a group that has never seen a man in Kita, you will find that none of the lads even considers being a Kita teacher!

 

If, however, your concern is at having somebody so young taking care of the kids, well, Germany is very hot on training, and I am sure that each and every rule of the Kita is going to be followed in training this lad, just as it has to be in training others - we all have to learn somehow!

[vesparia 2,161]

Sounds like he's currently studying to become a Kinderpfleger or an Erzieher*... and men are few and far between in this line of work. Why not ask him what he's studying? His studies will be attached to school and believe me they have to complete a lot of theory courses (and exams) before they're even allowed anywhere near kids. I've taught a few Erzieher-in-training (and yes, there were some guys) and it's incredible what they have to learn.

The Kita stays in close contact with the school, so they are most likely keeping a strong eye on him. And yes, they do background checks. The poor bloke is probably more than aware that he will be watched much more closely than his fellow female students and it is really tough for guys to get into this line of work, just as robinson100 said.

 

I wouldn't worry so much. I work with a male Erzieher too and the kids love him! Many of the boys find it easier to talk to him when there is a problem rather than one of the female Erziehers. If it still worries you, perhaps ask kiddo what s/he thinks of the new addition to the Kita. Kids are a lot quicker to pick up on character and how a person comes across compared to adults. If they say anything that concerns you, raise it with the Kita.

 

*To be an Erzieher, students need at least a Realschulabschluss which is obtained after completing Klasse 10, which may explain his age.

 

Extra info: My mother-in-law (who teaches Erzieher) has just told me that each student has to supply an extended background check before they're permitted to even start the course. This differs from a standard background check which only goes back three years. Even things which are 'taken off your record' remain on an extended background check. If there's an entry... no matter what for... you can't do the course. No loopholes, no way around it.

[Kazalphaville 1,813]

 

My mother-in-law (who teaches Erzieher) has just told me that each student has to supply an extended background check before they're permitted to even start the course. This differs from a standard background check which only goes back three years. Even things which are 'taken off your record' remain on an extended background check. If there's an entry... no matter what for... you can't do the course. No loopholes, no way around it.

 

Absolutely standard practice for anyone who wants to work with vulnerable persons, including children.

[RainyDays 2,453]

There are efforts by the state to get more men into a child care career. The reason for this is on the one hand a general shortage of Erzieher and on the other hand the belief that children, especially boys, benefit from contact with male caregivers. It has been noted and criticised that the early education system (Kindergarten/Kita and primary school) is dominated not to say monopolised by female carers and teachers, and this could lead to disadvantages for boys. With a high number of single mothers, there's a lack of male role models in the family environment, too.

 

The still few male students or new Erzieher are probably familiar with parents' concerns about them. Still, I think it would be fair to not suspect any sinister motivation for their career choice just on the basis of their sex. The Kindergarten management should however be able to explain their guidelines and procedures for the supervision of students.

[Keleth 9,321]

Has the world really come to this when we should have panic attacks because of teen student teachers in kita?

[fraufruit 42,497]

Keleth took the words off of the tips of my fingers.

 

I was going to say male student teachers, though. Talk about discrimination.

 

Sad state of affairs, indeed.

[Iain & Siobhan 691]

Greats young man wants to work with kids, the benefit to kids will be great. I have worked with kids for a large part of my life and am fed up with having to explain that I have no paedophile tendencies, I enjoy helping young people develop an enthusiasm for learning. Talk to the student and see what motivates him and stick your prejudices somewhere useful. Sorry I have little sympathy for your predicament, but the attitude holds a great profession back

[muchado 158]

 

Sounds like he's currently studying to become a Kinderpfleger or an Erzieher*... and men are few and far between in this line of work. Why not ask him what he's studying? His studies will be attached to school and believe me they have to complete a lot of theory courses (and exams) before they're even allowed anywhere near kids. I've taught a few Erzieher-in-training (and yes, there were some guys) and it's incredible what they have to learn.

The Kita stays in close contact with the school, so they are most likely keeping a strong eye on him. And yes, they do background checks. The poor bloke is probably more than aware that he will be watched much more closely than his fellow female students and it is really tough for guys to get into this line of work, just as robinson100 said.

 

I wouldn't worry so much. I work with a male Erzieher too and the kids love him! Many of the boys find it easier to talk to him when there is a problem rather than one of the female Erziehers. If it still worries you, perhaps ask kiddo what s/he thinks of the new addition to the Kita. Kids are a lot quicker to pick up on character and how a person comes across compared to adults. If they say anything that concerns you, raise it with the Kita.

 

*To be an Erzieher, students need at least a Realschulabschluss which is obtained after completing Klasse 10, which may explain his age.

 

Extra info: My mother-in-law (who teaches Erzieher) has just told me that each student has to supply an extended background check before they're permitted to even start the course. This differs from a standard background check which only goes back three years. Even things which are 'taken off your record' remain on an extended background check. If there's an entry... no matter what for... you can't do the course. No loopholes, no way around it.

 

Thank you for that. It was very helpful in calming some of my anxieties.

To the others, please know that as a teacher I have worked with both genders all my adult life and my own favorite teachers were male. This doesn't have to do with gender as I wrote in my original post. It has to do with a very young person who may not have the emotional maturity to handle everything and yes, I do not want him involved in helping my kid to the restroom. If that's a prejudice, I am happy to have it.

mlovett, thanks for the tip about talking to him and getting to know him. I am sure that will also help in easing my concerns. We have had the private parts discussion before and will need to reinforce it again and again as the kids get older.

 

I am not against him choosing my own profession but more concerned as to whether and how he was being supervised, what training he has received since he is so young, etc. Please don't make this about something else. Most of the people I know in the States wouldn't even let a 6 yr. old near their 3 yr. olds so you don't know where I am coming from. It's not that easy to clear all cultural hurdles and especially when you are emotionally vulnerable as most parents are.

[mercurial_1 826]

Well future "Erzieher" are usually very young when they start their Ausbildung...

 

It sounds like he is in his first year. At least that's what it was like for my daughter when she did the Ausbildung not too long ago. The first year included three days of school/classes and two days of practical work in a Kindergarten.

 

They are trying to encourage more males to chose this profession.

 

I have a son who did a year of voluntary service in a Kindergarten and he was not allowed to change diapers or help kids to the bathroom, if this worries you, you should ask what their policy re. bathroom/diaper change is with a young man in these early stages of his Ausbildung. The thing is, if males are *generally* prohibited from "bathroom duties", why would any Kindergarten hire a male?? They would basically always require a female to supervise him! Or do the things he's not allowed to do. Also, where draw the line?? Will the next step be to prohibit females from helping little boys?? Sorry, I don't think that that is the future...

 

Why would any male choose this profession knowing that it will put him under suspicion for the rest of his professional life and that he will never be treated or looked at equally (oh the irony...lol)?

 

Would you have the same worries about a 17- or 18year old female student?

[freagan 456]

Dude, you need to lighten up. You sound like Pedobear hit you over the head with the scaredy stick.

 

If you see everyone as a potential kiddy rapist, you better go live in a cave somewhere.

[Iain & Siobhan 691]

About nothing seems to be the appropriate response to op

[vesparia 2,161]

I think the underlying question, once you take all the 'argh a guy is looking after my child' away, is quite simply: is it safe to leave my child in the care of someone who is not (yet) qualified?

 

Erzieher are subject to a rigerous curriculum which not only includes the obvious things such as paedagogy, but also nutrition, maths, a foreign language, law, politics, German, hand crafting and sport to name a few. The background checks are the same for fully qualified teachers and Erzieher, so they're not just anyone who fancies a job working with kids. They're never actually left alone with the kids, although they are expected to help out with various parts of the day (playtime supervision, lunchtime etc etc).

 

I'm not entirely sure what is meant with bathroom duties as the kids I work with are already able to use the loo by themselves. The only time teachers generally step in is when a kid has had an 'accident'. Even then we only tell them to get their spare change of clothes (usually sport kit) and get changed rather than actually get involved.

 

The rules regarding which teacher can supervise which kids are strict, so I wouldn't panic.

[yomintyfresh 87]

RE: background checks:

 

 

Absolutely standard practice for anyone who wants to work with vulnerable persons, including children.

 

Background checks do not seem to be as common in Germany as in North America. For example, when I was a language assistant in Rheinland-Pfalz, I was given a set of keys for free reign in the school as soon as I arrived, even though no background check was ever done, and I did not have to do an interview with the school or with the organization that sent me over. In Germany, I have yet to come across a private language school for children that does any sort of background check, either.

 

In contrast, in the US, for a part-time tutoring job in a school, I needed a TB test, a drug screening, a background check, and had to have my fingerprints placed on file. A friend currently volunteers at an elementary school for a few hours a week and needed to submit her fingerprints and undergo a background check.

 

For the OP: As far as I know, a Kita is only allowed to have a very small number of student teachers, working side-by-side with people who have spent a minimum of three years studying how to become an Erzieher. In addition to that, in the last state I lived in in the US, to work at a daycare center, one has to be at least 16 years old and have a high school diploma, no specialized education, no nothing. When it comes down to it, I'd pick the 16-year-old Erzieher student teacher over a 16-year-old (or even an 18-year-old - heck, after years of working at the high school and university levels, I would definitely prefer to work with a 16- or 17-year-old than someone between the ages of 18 and 20) with a high school diploma and no plans to learn more about childcare.

[Lblaney 261]

I'm sorry, but your stress seems to be primarily from the worker being male (ex. your concern specifically about him helping in the bathroom.) I think your unspoken fear comes from assuming he wants to work with children because he's some kind of criminal. That's unfortunate, and it's that kind of unfounded fear that keeps a lot of excellent men from working in the childcare or teaching fields.

 

In my experience working in childcare in the US, male employees faced this kind of discrimination (disguised as parental concern) quite often. I really felt for them because mostly they were just teenagers looking for a job that didn't involve slinging burgers, or really dedicated educators that were great with the kids.

 

When we read the news too much, it's easy to generalize and start to believe that every man on every park bench is planning to abduct our kids or that any man that wants to work in a kindergarten must have some kind of ulterior motive, when this is mostly not the case. Give the guy a chance.

[robinson100 12,854]

 

Give the guy a chance.

 

Yes!

 

Get to know him a little and you might feel totally different about him!

 

Okay, so you are American, and things are different there - well, as we all know by now, things are different in Germany too, and this lad has the same right to train to be a Kita carer, as any lass has to become a firewoman.

 

Maybe you should contemplate how wonderful this society actually is, if both sexes have the same right to follow their chosen career?

[muchado 158]

double post. deleted.

[muchado 158]

 

 

Would you have the same worries about a 17- or 18year old female student?

 

Yes, for the same reasons posted above.

And now I am checking out of this thread. Thank you to those who gave me a logical explanation with useful suggestions.

[Guest]

One boy at a Gymnasium in our area said he was doing an internship or something of the sort at a Kita, and he seemed real likeable, and girls and boys seem to like male Kita personnel in general so it is considered normal, and in Germany it's laid back on nudity so I guess they would help in the bathroom as needed. So far I've never heard of a bad incident with any male peronnel in a Kita, unlike what I've heard back in the US.