Taxes on capital gains from stocks

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Hi,

 

In 2014 i made some buy/sell stocks with the Deutsche Bank account. It's nice that i have a statement Steueurbsecheinigung for the whole year 2014 that i can use now for my tax declaration for that year(i know ... i should have done it long time ago ...).

But afterwards i switched to flatex and now i do not have such nice statements for the whole year.

Does anyone knows how can i get one ? I see some saldenmitteilung for quarters i think.

 

Also i might have losses for one year: went up with profits in the first half , but second half of the year i managed to erase them and slightly go below my initial capital.

Where would these appear ?

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Just ask flatex for a Steuerbescheinigung - they have to give it to you once you ask, free of cost.

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Hello, 

As always, great material and information from the community!

 

In particular, hello @PandaMunich@Starshollow, I don't know actually if you appreciate being quoted directly or not, so please let me know if that is not desired. I am quoting you 2 as most of the threads I read get solved but you anyhow. 

 

Is it possible to offset personal investment losses against:

- 1. regular income? 

- 2. capital gains?

- 3. dividends?

 

And if so, to what extent? 

 

Also, are there any tax free savings/investment accounts in germany like an ISA in UK or 401k in US? Or are there any means to save on tax in general like with unrealized gains, ...

 

Note: I have already seen starshollow brochure about the 'new' changes from 2009 (https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/112873-abgeltungssteuer-new-capital-gains-tax-in-2009/). Saying it to avoid repetition of your answers.

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Hello,

I just moved from USA to Germany.

I still have my brokerage accounts there and as I'm not USA citizen I will claim the 15% rate for dividends paid by USA corporations.

I understand that in Germany: 1) the capital losses from stocks trading only can be offset from gains from stocks trading (not dividends nor interest). 

But if you have a loss from a bond trading (you bought at par and sold it at discount) this loss (of capital) can offset income from interest or dividends in the tax return?

I think I read something like that.

Because if there is no wash sale rule it would be legal to harvest losses from bonds trading to offset interest income.

Where can I find the tax implication of buying selling bond at premium/discount for the German income tax?

Regards

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can someone help???

I have an account over sea which that do not supply the buy price of the stock, only the sale price.

It is a very respectable bank, but they do not provide this information. So, this year I sold stock in value of 13,000Euro.

What can I do about it? Will I pay 20% of 13,000Euro??

 

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8 minutes ago, mikiKam said:

can someone help???

I have an account over sea which that do not supply the buy price of the stock, only the sale price.

It is a very respectable bank, but they do not provide this information. So, this year I sold stock in value of 13,000Euro.

 

 

 

You are going to have to find out how much you paid for the shares when you bought them. That can be a pain in the ass if your portofolio is complex and you did a fair amount of trading, but the bank must hold records or every single transaction.

 

If you are sure you bought the stock before 2007/2008 (am not sure exactly what the cut off date is) the sale is tax free. You don't need to worry about it, or even declare it.

 

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What can I do about it? Will I pay 20% of 13,000Euro??

 

The maximum tax to pay would be 25% + Soli + church tax, not 20% if you'd bought the stock for pennies and nearly 100% of the sell price were cap gains. The Finanzamt would not object to that (in my experience, they never complain if you pay too much) and that would exonerate your tax liability, but you really should try to find out what you paid when you bought the shares in order not to pay too much tax

 

Also, please DON'T DOUBLE POST. Add your question to a single thread. That's enough for us to see it.

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36 minutes ago, Smaug said:

 

You are going to have to find out how much you paid for the shares when you bought them. That can be a pain in the ass if your portofolio is complex and you did a fair amount of trading, but the bank must hold records or every single transaction.

 

If you are sure you bought the stock before 2007/2008 (am not sure exactly what the cut off date is) the sale is tax free. You don't need to worry about it, or even declare it.

 

 

The maximum tax to pay would be 25% + Soli + church tax, not 20% if you'd bought the stock for pennies and nearly 100% of the sell price were cap gains. The Finanzamt would not object to that (in my experience, they never complain if you pay too much) and that would exonerate your tax liability, but you really should try to find out what you paid when you bought the shares in order not to pay too much tax

 

Also, please DON'T DOUBLE POST. Add your question to a single thread. That's enough for us to see it.

 

thanks for the reply.

 

Well, i am sure it was very far buy, but the bank just cannot provide the buy date. I only have found some excel i kept myself, dated 2004 but i can't prove it. 

sorry for the double sending. 

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@mikiKam Did you maybe transfer the shares from another bank to the current one? That's the only scenario I can think of for the bank not having a purchase date. If you had done that, your current bank would not have that information and you'd have to approach the bank that had previously held the shares for that

 

Do you have a statement dated before 2008 that shows that you already held those shares? If you do, that's all you need to have to prove that the sale is tax-free should the Finanzamt query this in the future.

 

Note that I am not a tax advisor, lawyer, accountant or anything similar, so don't interpret this as legal or tax advice.

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38 minutes ago, Smaug said:

@mikiKam Did you maybe transfer the shares from another bank to the current one? That's the only scenario I can think of for the bank not having a purchase date. If you had done that, your current bank would not have that information and you'd have to approach the bank that had previously held the shares for that

 

Do you have a statement dated before 2008 that shows that you already held those shares? If you do, that's all you need to have to prove that the sale is tax-free should the Finanzamt query this in the future.

 

Note that I am not a tax advisor, lawyer, accountant or anything similar, so don't interpret this as legal or tax advice.

 

thanks Smaug,

 

i know its strange and i could not believe it also when they told me. 

"I am sorry to inform that is no special report for gain/lost amount  to our customer by our investment section. You can just check the transaction history through  the statements of your investment settlement account."

 

i have bought from them all the possible investments history, but they go back only 8 years. means 2010. 

 

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3 hours ago, mikiKam said:

i have bought from them all the possible investments history, but they go back only 8 years. means 2010. 

 

 

That's a bit weird. I can't imagine a bank not having records going back a lot longer than 10 years. Do you mind PMing me the name of the bank? I presume you don't want to post it here.

 

Again, I can't give you tax advice; I can only tell you what I'd do in your shoes.

 

I'd try to find out when I bought those shares by checking the account movements of the funding account. That money must have come from somewhere.  If you find the appropriate transaction, the amount and the date (from which you can get the share price) would give you a clue as to how much you paid for the stock.

 

It is possible that in case of queries from the Finanzamt, your spreadsheet from 2004 be accepted as a valid record. Don't dismiss it so quickly. Receipts, bank statements and other documents sometimes get lost or are unavailable for whatever reason, and as far as one documents things plausibly, the records you've created yourself might be accepted.

 

Does your spreadsheet actually show that you bought the stock in 2004 or before?

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16 minutes ago, Smaug said:

 

That's a bit weird. I can't imagine a bank not having records going back a lot longer than 10 years. Do you mind PMing me the name of the bank? I presume you don't want to post it here.

 

Again, I can't give you tax advice; I can only tell you what I'd do in your shoes.

 

I'd try to find out when I bought those shares by checking the account movements of the funding account. That money must have come from somewhere.  If you find the appropriate transaction, the amount and the date (from which you can get the share price) would give you a clue as to how much you paid for the stock.

 

It is possible that in case of queries from the Finanzamt, your spreadsheet from 2004 be accepted as a valid record. Don't dismiss it so quickly. Receipts, bank statements and other documents sometimes get lost or are unavailable for whatever reason, and as far as one documents things plausibly, the records you've created yourself might be accepted.

 

Does your spreadsheet actually show that you bought the stock in 2004 or before?

 

Thanks a lot for the reply and try to assist.

 

the bank is HSBC. I just talked with them again, and nada, only 7 years backup. 

My excel doesn't show the date of purchase. I just did it to myself to know where i am plus-minus. I am not a 'day trader' i had this stock for a long time, and when i see that i am not losing much, i sold it last year. With all the talking about a new crash i just wanted to have what i have and not 'play' with stocks. 

 

I am 99% sure that it was after 2008 crash. Something around 2010. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, mikiKam said:

the bank is HSBC. I just talked with them again, and nada, only 7 years backup.

 

That just reminds me of when they asked me "have you ever had sex with another man" in a mortgage application form. :D I kid you not. It was more than 20 years ago but I still remember my jaw hitting the floor. Presumably they ask, or at least used to ask that, to exclude those who might be at risk of HIV and might then have to rely on income protection insurance to pay the mortgage. They used to be a very nice bank (Midland Bank). I have fond memories of them giving me a bag of goodies when I opened an account with them in my Birmingham student days. But sorry, I am getting carried away...

 

Quote

My excel doesn't show the date of purchase. I just did it to myself to know where i am plus-minus

 

But you know it's from 2004? You can take a screenshot of the file properties showing that, for example, and save it. Gather as much evidence as you can.

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Smaug said:

 

That just reminds me of when they asked me "have you ever had sex with another man" in a mortgage application form. :D I kid you not. It was more than 20 years ago but I still remember my jaw hitting the floor. Presumably they ask, or at least used to ask that, to exclude those who might be at risk of HIV and might then have to rely on income protection insurance to pay the mortgage. They used to be a very nice bank (Midland Bank). I have fond memories of them giving me a bag of goodies when I opened an account with them in my Birmingham student days. But sorry, I am getting carried away...

 

 

But you know it's from 2004? You can take a screenshot of the file properties showing that, for example, and save it. Gather as much evidence as you can.

 

 

yes, i thought about the properties, It shows it was created back in 2005. but i could have bought the stupid stock anytime from 2005 to 2011...(where the backup begins, or ends) 

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13 hours ago, mikiKam said:

 

i have bought from them all the possible investments history, but they go back only 8 years. means 2010. 

 

   

8 hours ago, mikiKam said:


. but i could have bought the stupid stock anytime from 2005 to 2011...(where the backup begins, or ends) 

 

If you have statements going back to 2010 and the transaction isn’t there. You must have bought it before then, It can’t be 2011.  

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10 hours ago, Smaug said:

   

 

If you have statements going back to 2010 and the transaction isn’t there. You must have bought it before then, It can’t be 2011.  

the statements go seven years before. 

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Not sure I fully understood how everything works, but here is my situation:

I am resident here in germany, operate with Lynx brokerage.

 

I have made some profits, let's say 1000 euros (by selling certain stocks), now it is close to the end of the year, does this mean if by selling other stocks I can offset the "gains"/profit of 1k?

 

For example currently market is quite down, I could sell all my losing assets, generate loss, which will offset my 1k profit into "0" profit? Does it work like this? Maybe this is silly question.

 

And 2nd of all, is "loss harvesting" a thing here, I mean if I can gather the loss from this year and apply it in the taxes of 2018 does it make sense to sell all the losing assets, gather all the loss -> offset the gains -> get more tax back? 

 

Third question, is there a difference between long and short term losses/gains? (as in States) How does it work here with stocks?

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Without being able to comment on the specific situ, we are perfectly free to sell lossmaking items.   However, it's often really only just deferring tax if we just then re-buy and the next calculation just starts from that lower base.    There is of course an 800 Euro tax allowance here, so not much point if that is still avaiable and it really is only 1000.   I have no feel for how the authorities regard "bed and breakfasting" but most of us can back up a choice on free will managment of typical assets without the words: "I only did it to avoid tax".

 

No loss-harvesting on standard funds and such.  The year is closed.   There is on some financial instruments of a more speculative nature.   I've got one small loss certificate from the tax authority that is more than a decade old but I've not been in that transaction much recently.   These are indeed completely indistunguishable, asked for it to be written off but it cannot be.

 

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On 12/28/2018, 11:31:14, swimmer said:

Without being able to comment on the specific situ, we are perfectly free to sell lossmaking items.   However, it's often really only just deferring tax if we just then re-buy and the next calculation just starts from that lower base.    There is of course an 800 Euro tax allowance here, so not much point if that is still avaiable and it really is only 1000.   I have no feel for how the authorities regard "bed and breakfasting" but most of us can back up a choice on free will managment of typical assets without the words: "I only did it to avoid tax".

 

No loss-harvesting on standard funds and such.  The year is closed.   There is on some financial instruments of a more speculative nature.   I've got one small loss certificate from the tax authority that is more than a decade old but I've not been in that transaction much recently.   These are indeed completely indistunguishable, asked for it to be written off but it cannot be.

 

 

Very confusing answer...

I did not ask whether I can or can not sell assets in loss :-)

The idea of my question of selling losing asset wasn't to start at lower level, but to offset the PROFITS generated by selling some other assets, which had huge gains. 

 

 

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Hi all,

 

I am hoping someone here can guide me. I've overlooked something very basic. I didnt get a tax exemption with my bank and have been filing/paying capital tax gains without deducting the allowance for last years myself. My bank steuerbescheinigung states that I am taxed on all income - without the 801EUR allowance.

 

How can I rectify this with my tax filings - current and previous? Any pointers will really help. Many thanks! Ofcourse, now I have given my bank tax exemption order from this year on.

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I finally decided to try my luck at the equity market this year and did make make some profits. I sold some of the equities and realized the gain. This is all done using Interactive brokers.

 

I visited my Steuerberater in order to prepare for the tax returns to be filed next year for 2020. I was surprised when he said my gains will be taxed at 42% as that is my individual tax slab. I was under the impression that capital gains made from equity will be capped at 25 % or may be max 27% , bit not more than that.

 

Is this true? or did I get all this all wrong? 

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