Knife-wielding schizophrenic shot by police

145 posts in this topic

I wouldn't expect any number of police to go up against someone with a knife in an effort to over power them. That is too dangerous and simply not worth it.

 

I don't believe that the officers get stabbed more often in the UK/Ireland, but it's not because of their superior hand to hand combat skills. It's because they don't confront the offender if they don't have the suitable tools at hand. Not confronting them causes it's own problems though.

 

 

I tend to believe that most of these incidents are resolved with the officer(s) disarming the man using the methods at their disposal.

 

Of course that's how they do it, how else should you solve the problem other than using the tools at their disposal. One tool that the British police have is staying the hell away and calling for armed reinforcements. Why do you think just because many officers over there don't carry guns that it somehow brings the situation to a less violent ending?

 

Let's not forget the recent Woolwich incident, where the British police showed up with guns and also shot and killed the knife wielding nutcase when he came for them.

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What are UK police trained to do when confronted with a knife wielding man?

 

They weren't just "confronted" with a knife-wielding man. The policeman was attacked by a naked lunatic with a knife. The policeman first tried to retreat, but the man kept pursuing him. Only then did the policeman shoot.

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This man was mentally ill. Mental illness is just like any other kind of illness, not something somebody "does"...they just "are". Please don't refer to him as a lunatic now that we know he was mentally ill.

 

Guys, the ARU in the UK (ERU in Ireland) are relatively new phenomena and are not available every where all the time. Cops over there have to deal with this stuff without firearms all the time and do those of you supporting the actions of the police here really believe that these sorts of things don't happen fairly often here in Germany? They do happen but most of the time the police don't shoot the guy so it never makes the news and we never hear about it.

 

Even here in Germany in 99%+ of these types of incident there will be a non-fatal outcome. That didn't happen this time because mistakes were made. The officer should never have entered the fountain alone but having done so he should have had an effective non-fatal means of subduing the man. It seems he didn't have anything other than his pistol (at least I hope it doesn't turn out that he had pepper spray or whatever on his belt...that would be even more tragic because as we are now hearing, this man wasn't Mr. Invincible on PCP or crack, he was mentally ill and he would have been subdue-able with such non-fatal means).

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I've just watched the video again. Something about the disturbing nature of witnessing the last moments of a person's life must have distracted me from two things: how quickly the man was walking, and how the officer was indeed nearing the edge of the fountain which would have meant having to turn his back on the person approaching him rather rapidly with a weapon in his hand. So, I take back my previous opinion that the officer didn't really think his life was in danger. It does look now as if he did not want to turn his back on someone with a knife.

 

However, it would be interesting to see the moments before the video starts running.

 

First: there appears to be no attempt at crowd control whatsoever. The number of rubberneckers waltzing through the scene is appalling. Surely the very first thing the police should have done was clear the area for the safety of the general public, and to give themselves more space in which to maneuver around the man.

 

Second: approaching the man in the terribly awkward and confined space of the fountain was pure idiocy. Stupider still was the lone officer going in with his weapon drawn. Assuming the ambulance was not standing by for the sole purpose of collecting the carcass, they must have been aware going in that what was happening was a medical emergency in progress. Why was there not more effort put into attempting to "talk him off of the ledge," so to speak?

 

 

If this happened in the America, then no one would have batted an eyelid...

 

1. the fuck does America have to do with the price of rice?

 

2. you are talking utter and complete bullshit. Firstly, because it's bullshit. Secondly, because there is nothing American news media love more than the smell of a good scandal and accompanying public outcry in the morning. Thirdly, because even in America, you cannot cap an unclothed mental patient in the middle of broad daylight in the middle of a capital city without an explanation. I realize you probably get most of your information about the States from clips of daytime talk shows and badly-dubbed Simpsons reruns but do please attempt to get a grip.

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Second: approaching the man in the terribly awkward and confined space of the fountain was pure idiocy. Stupider still was the lone officer going in with his weapon drawn. Assuming the ambulance was not standing by for the sole purpose of collecting the carcass, they must have been aware going in that what was happening was a medical emergency in progress. Why was there not more effort put into attempting to "talk him off of the ledge," so to speak?

 

Maybe the policeman did try to "talk him off of the ledge" and maybe he didn't draw his weapon until the naked man started approaching him with his knife. As you mentioned (and I did previously) the video doesn't show what was happening beforehand. Apparantly there wasn't much time for talking anyway as he was stabbing himself repeatedly according to eye witnesses.

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Thirdly, because even in America, you cannot cap an unclothed mental patient in the middle of broad daylight in the middle of a capital city without an explanation.

Fuck. Not much point in me moving there now.

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They do happen but most of the time the police don't shoot the guy so it never makes the news and we never hear about it.

 

Most of the time the knife wielding attacker does not actively go for the police. If this guy hadn't attacked, he wouldn't be dead. It's sad that he had a mental illness that caused him to do it, but he did it none the less.

 

 

Even here in Germany in 99%+ of these types of incident there will be a non-fatal outcome. That didn't happen this time because mistakes were made. The officer should never have entered the fountain alone but having done so he should have had an effective non-fatal means of subduing the man. It seems he didn't have anything other than his pistol (at least I hope it doesn't turn out that he had pepper spray or whatever on his belt...that would be even more tragic because as we are now hearing, this man wasn't Mr. Invincible on PCP or crack, he was mentally ill and he would have been subdue-able with such non-fatal means).

 

Everything you said above is nonsense, and shows you clearly know nothing about being in such a situation. What non-fatal means do you think they should have employed against someone with a knife a few meters away? Have a look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9igSoJHEdUo. The interesting stuff starts at around 2 minutes. What effect do you think pepper spray or a taser is going to have on someone coming at you at 10ft? Are you going to risk your life trying non-lethal force in this situation? Forget it.

 

At what point then do you think he should have been subdued with non-fatal means? Should have they just walked up to him and pepper sprayed or tased him immediately? Then you'd be crying police brutality for them not trying to negotiate!

 

Why do you think more police would have helped? More police would have just meant more people with the possibility of being stabbed. Even if there was 10 police officers there, they most certainly should not have tried to physically restrain a guy with a knife.

 

If someone comes at you like that with a knife there is only one thing that all law enforcement officers are trained to do and that is shoot to stop the attack. The police officer in this case acted exactly as he had been trained and exactly as he should have.

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1. the fuck does America have to do with the price of rice?

 

2. you are talking utter and complete bullshit. Firstly, because it's bullshit. Secondly, because there is nothing American news media love more than the smell of a good scandal and accompanying public outcry in the morning. Thirdly, because even in America, you cannot cap an unclothed mental patient in the middle of broad daylight in the middle of a capital city without an explanation. I realize you probably get most of your information about the States from clips of daytime talk shows and badly-dubbed Simpsons reruns but do please attempt to get a grip.

 

So, if they are mentally Ill, its a No go! ( The coppers in Berlin didnt know this till after the event)

 

But you can shoot a naked party goer!

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That's Florida, SpiderPig. You have to assume everyone there is 1) crazy, 2) dangerous, and 3) on hallucinogenic substances until proven otherwise.

 

And she was hardly a "party goer" - she was a party crasher.

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I don't really see your point, SpiderPig. Are you saying that Americans are not allowed to comment on this thread due to the endemic gun violence in the U.S.?

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From how I read it, you implied that no one would have batted an eyelid in the U.S. if this had happened there, dessa said that was bullshit. She never claimed that this kind of incident does not occur in the U.S.

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You wouldn't treat a rabid dog the way he was treated.

How about they put on stab proof vests and a few of the cops tried to tackle him. Too dangerous, I might get stabbed, might , might, might. Lets escalate the situation and if he gets near me, as he well might being out of his mind, well I'm entitled to shoot him dead.

 

He could have been easily dealt with, with Batons and several policemen for instance, at an extremely low risk of injury to anybody but himself.

 

What is the world coming to . I don't even see how this cold be debatable, unless you focus in on what might happen, what could happen when trying to deal with a guy holding a knife.

 

Commonsense

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How about they put on stab proof vests and a few of the cops tried to tackle him. Too dangerous, I might get stabbed, might , might, might. Lets escalate the situation and if he gets near me, as he well might being out of his mind, well I'm entitled to shoot him dead.

 

You sound pretty tough from behind your computer. Maybe you should join the police and put your life on the line to ensure no violent nut jobs ever get hurt. Don't worry about what "might" theoretically happen when someone tries to stab you, just make damn sure you don't hurt them while trying to bring them under control. What the hell is the world coming to when police think about their own personal safety. Everyone knows the safety of knife wielding, violent criminals is more important!

 

Meanwhile in the real world, no reasonable person expects the police to put their life on the line in such a situation.

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yeagh, make it personal . Thanks. Whats the real world like . Educate me.

 

Your Fairy,

Padjo

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I still say they could have knocked him over with a riot shield, piece of plywood, rubbish bin etc.

 

It will be interesting to see what new protocol will come from this.

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. I don't even see how this cold be debatable,

 

Commonsense

 

It became debateable when Lord Woofington cried Murder...

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