Knife-wielding schizophrenic shot by police

145 posts in this topic

 

That's what I said. I'd need to see more stats.

 

Such small numbers - though personally always a tragedy - are statistically insignificant. To get more stats, you would need more incidents. You don't really want that, do you?

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I wonder who comes up with titles such as: "Naked man shot dead by police at Neptunbrunnen". Is the man's lack of clothes more relevant than the (omitted) fact that he was aggressively walking towards a policeman while menacingly wielding a knife?

 

How about: "Man attacks policeman with knife and gets shot"?

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All right. Then how about: "naked man attacks policeman with knife and gets shot"?

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As I noted in my post above, the media are reporting that he was a diagnosed schizophrenic. But there is no evidence (yet) that he fell through the cracks of the system, but rather that he stopped taking his meds and went on a rampage.

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Or they could have used that excavator with grab. Unfortunately they had neither with them. When do you see cops with riot shields on a street?

 

I have no earthly idea what cops carry around in their cars and vans. I do know they can get what they need pretty quick by using a radio. One never knows when a riot might break out.

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This was murder. It was an execution. The naked man clearly had no other weapons (duh) and could have been stopped -- if necessary -- in the worst case with a shot to his leg. "Necessary" meaning that the guy was presenting an immediate threat to anyone just there.

 

What you're saying is utterly ridiculous and it's clear you have no idea about the dangers of knives or what law enforcement all over the world are trained to do when someone is threatening them at close quarters with a knife (taking aim and making sure to shoot someone in the leg is most definitely not something that is or should be taught).

 

If someone comes at you with a knife, especially if they are 1.5m away from you like you suggest, that is a shoot to kill situation and that's how it should be.

 

 

There is something known as TACKLE - a training to disarm a knife or truncheon wielding guy. This is a standard training - or should be one.

 

Absolute nonsense. If you have a gun, there is no way in the world that anyone should be trying to disarm someone with a knife. Why the hell should anyone put themselves in harms way like that? Show me one law enforcement agency in the world that suggests anything else.

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I would imagine it's much more difficult to make a snap decision when a naked man with an 8" knife is charging at you in the middle of a heavily-trafficked area less than 200m from Berlin's city hall.

 

This may well be one of the very few times since I have been a member here that I actually agree with something you have said

 

Only because I have been stabbed twice, had a gun pointed at me and had my head stoved in with a baseball bat. I agree with what you are saying, but do not think you have any right to say what you have, office boy.

 

If it was me in that position, I would have shot him. Repeatedly. You don´t fuck around in these situations. If someone is trying to take your last, gasping, breath from you, then you fight against that. For all you are worth.

 

Which is why I fundamentally agree with baddoggie. Cops are different. They are trained to handle this kind of situation. Mostly as part of basic training. What turned me against the mainstream thought here was that there was close to a dozen officers in the closed-frame of that video. Nobody needed to be there in the fountain with him. Christ, this isn't Hollywood. Just shepard the guy to a tazing point, beat the fuck out of him, and forget.

 

(there but for the grace went I)

 

(yes... I have been arrested for being naked in a fountain in the middle of a city. No... I wasn't trying to stab myself or police officers at the time. And I have been tazed. Dropped me like a sack of shit. Or so I have been told :lol: )

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But isn't there the difference of shooting to incapacitate and "shoot to kill"?

 

There is no such thing as shooting to incapacitate. If you take out your gun to shoot, it's because you are in a life threatening situation, and you shoot to stop the threat in the most effective and fool proof manner, which generally means shooting at the body.

 

I'm quite sure there isn't one law enforcement agency in the world that teaches you to shoot at a leg or an arm (in such a situation anyway, snipers are a different matter). They don't teach it because it doesn't work and is dangerous.

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This police officer should have been able to disarm and restrain the guy with his bare hands. This was excessive force, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Give me a break. You expect someone to risk their life to go up against a knife wielding crazy man? What alternate universe are you living on? That is not the job of anyone, even the police and nor should it be.

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Which is why I fundamentally agree with baddoggie. Cops are different. They are trained to handle this kind of situation. Mostly as part of basic training.

 

You seem to be an expert on this matter. Why don't you go ahead and tell us what exactly police are trained to do when confronted by a knife wielding man at close quarters?

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That's a good question. If they don't have a gun, I can imagine they are trained to get the hell out of there and call for backup. If they tried to do that in this case, maybe the crazy guy would have stabbed someone else though. I'm glad that in this case they had a gun and no one else got hurt.

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What are UK police trained to do when confronted with a knife wielding man?

 

Call in the firearms unit...

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So they'd contain the situation rather than wading in to the fountain? What if they were being "attacked" by the knife wielding man and waiting for a firearms unit was not an option?

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They would likely get stabbed.

 

And what do you mean contain the situation in this case? How do you contain it? By making sure that no one goes near the guy and keep your distance? In the meantime, the guy is cutting himself up. After he ends up bleeding to death in the fountain, people would complain that the police stood by and let him kill himself.

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Nobody needed to be there in the fountain with him.

The police probably went in there to try and stop him stabbing himself, or should they have let him continue with what he was doing until it was too late to do something about it?

 

Obviously the guy didn't appreciate the effort.

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They would likely get stabbed.

 

I disagree. Do you really believe that most incidents in the UK/Ireland where a man is threatening police with a knife result in the officer being stabbed? I tend to believe that most of these incidents are resolved with the officer(s) disarming the man using the methods at their disposal.

 

The police went at this like Keystone Cops. I do not believe this was an execution or murder etc. it was just handled in an amateur way. Why did a single officer enter the fountain? If they were going to go in they should have gone in in numbers and overpowered him that way.

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