Knife-wielding schizophrenic shot by police

145 posts in this topic

Ethical/moral issues aside,

 

Looking at the movement of the officer shooting I wonder if he fired at the same time as he sensed that he was backing into the low wall.

 

You know that split second feeling when you walk backwards into someone or something or mistime your step off the kerb. Most people tense up...

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It's difficult to judge what really happened there, as the moments before the shooting incident happened are not on the video. I wonder if the beginning of the video was cut off on purpose to only show the shooting and the moments afterwards. Considering that the naked man was stabbing himself with a knife (suicadal?) maybe he wanted to be shot judging by the way he was determinedly approaching the policeman picking up speed as he was doing so, forcing the policeman to unexpectedly walk backwards. The naked man was almost upon him. If the policeman had stopped, he could have been stabbed in the chest, if he had turned around to get away he could have been stabbed in the back. What was he supposed to do?

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I choose not to watch the video.

 

It sounds like to me that 2 or 3 cops could have charged him with those riot shield thingies and knocked him down.

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Or they could have used that excavator with grab. Unfortunately they had neither with them. When do you see cops with riot shields on a street?

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At first I thought it was too much shooting him, but on the other hand, my daughter was there around the time it happened, she saw the guy being carried out in a body bag, which made me think, what if the police han't have gotten there on time, what if that guy had have gone crazy attacking people and injured my daughter.

 

It's easy to condemn the shooting, but who can say how they would react in the same situation, I think when you're in that situation, your main priority is your own security and the security of the general public, I feel sorry for the officer who had to make that decision to shoot, police officer or not, I can imagine this will haunt him for a long, long time

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But isn't there the difference of shooting to incapacitate and "shoot to kill"?

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This police officer should have been able to disarm and restrain the guy with his bare hands. This was excessive force, nothing more, nothing less.

 

Unfortunately this is completely typical of the attitude toward the mentally ill in Germany, e.g. "fuck them". This is why you can see so many homeless people eating other people's vomit off the ground and out of bins around the HBF of any German city, at any time of the day. No one gives a shit about them and without early detection and the proper treatment this is the end result.

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But isn't there the difference of shooting to incapacitate and "shoot to kill"?

 

I was always told you dont shoot anyone / anything unless you intend to kill it. In fact I was told not to even point a weapon at something unless I wanted it dead, but I suspect police are told differently, to aim as a final warning.

 

At the end of the day a firearm should be last resort and it should be a clean well taken shot at the center of mass not some kind of john wayne shooting the knife from his hand whicdh is liable to miss and end up killing a child stood somewhere in the background.

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To be honest a guy with a knife probably "goes at" police in the UK & Ireland on a daily basis (or at least a weekly basis). In the UK and Ireland stab proof vests are standard equipment for officers. These officers would have disarmed the guy using non-lethal means (as uniformed officers in both counties only exceptionally carry firearms). Again I would say that the German police are not up to much if they can't disarm a naked dude with a knife without having to shoot him first.

 

The whole "shoot in the leg" is well known to not be an option and no police force trains officers to shoot at anything other than the torso to prevent stray bullets...the point is it should never have gotten to the point where a shot had to be fired at all.

 

I don't blame the individual officer here. The organisation has failed IMO and it's not murder because the officer didn't set out to kill the guy. There was no premeditation involved, so not murder.

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Should the copper have waited until the bloke had cut someones head off, then made a Vid for youtube...

 

Then get the bloke and keep him in a warm custodial cell and feed him 3 times a day?

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No, he shouldn't have waited... he should have disarmed him using non-lethal force like police officers in other countries have to do every day.

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No, he shouldn't have waited... he should have disarmed him using non-lethal force like police officers in other countries have to do every day.

 

Which are those countries, where such incidents don't happen? Please tell, I'm curious.

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There are no countries where "such things don't happen", of course. But in some regions, like the UK (for example), shooting someone with a knife is a last resort, not a first one. This is sloppy, trigger-happy bullshit.

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And if you read the numbers I provided, you'd have to admit that it's also a last resort in Germany.

 

Those are not trigger-happy incidents, but people that panicked and -- in retrospect -- handled it badly.

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It's easy to play armchair quarterback when you're hundreds of kilometers away, watching a fuzzy, heavily-edited video.

 

I would imagine it's much more difficult to make a snap decision when a naked man with an 8" knife is charging at you in the middle of a heavily-trafficked area less than 200m from Berlin's city hall. A knife like that can do a lot of damage even to someone in a stab vest, which only covers the upper torso.

 

The loss of life is certainly unfortunate, especially since the victim seems to have been a diagnosed schizophrenic who had gone off his meds, and I'm sure the police officer who shot him will be haunted by it, but I for one am glad that the knife-wielding man was the only victim.

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I'd want to see more stats but the figures you provided showed a doubling of shots fired from 2011 to 2012. If that is a trend, it's a worrying one.

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You can't get a trend from such small numbers. It's 36 shots at persons more than last year. A single shoot out from a bank robbery can cover that. Since I'm not aware of all incidents I can't really comment on it.

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