Anlage Unterhalt - if you support parents/spouse

195 posts in this topic

On 27.3.2019, 17:30:37, Zingalala said:

Dear Friends,

This is a query regarding Maintenance declaration (Unterhaltserklärung) form for Tax return purpose.

Till last year my tax consultant / Finanzamt accepted the form with the stamp of  Notary Advocate from India.

This year he informed me that this form must be stamped and signed by local Indian authorities.

My best guess is to get it stamped by Tehasil or collector office.

When Tehasil office saw that form, they didn’t stamp it as form didn’t mention explicitly their name.

Did anyone get this form stamped, if yes by which Indian authority?  

 

Thanks

 

Hi,

 

I am facing the same issue this year. Which Indian authority did you get it stamped/ signed from eventually? 

 

Best regards

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@PandaMunich

Hi,

 

Thanks for such an informative topic. Really appreciated. Just wanted to know is there a way to claim it digitally? I know of apps like Taxfix.de but they said hey don't support cases like this. Does anyone know of any online service with which I could do it?

Edit: Another question, does payment receipts from services like Transferwise etc. also work or it has to be via banks?

 

P.S. I already have the form signed and notarized from my home country.

 

Thanks!

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Hi @PandaMunich, thanks for your awesome assistance on this Forum. I have a question which I think is new here.

 

I've been supporting my wife's father in Portugal via monthly bank transfers. He's divorced and is living in a retirement home, which we are helping him pay for.

The problem is that he cannot sign the Unterhalt form as his hands are completely closed from arthritis. His national ID card specifies that he cannot sign.

In this case, how do you recommend that we authenticate the Unterhalt document?

 

Thank you! 

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44 minutes ago, ZybexXL said:

I've been supporting my wife's father in Portugal via monthly bank transfers. He's divorced and is living in a retirement home, which we are helping him pay for.

The problem is that he cannot sign the Unterhalt form as his hands are completely closed from arthritis. His national ID card specifies that he cannot sign.

In this case, how do you recommend that we authenticate the Unterhalt document?

 

Have a Portuguese notary write, sign and seal/stamp a statement that Mr. ... (your father-in-law) came in front of him and stated that he intends to sign the form ... but cannot do so because of his arthritis and attach that Portuguese notary's statement and a translation of it into German to your tax return.

 

In Germany, notaries have special seals they affix to their statements:

 

Maybe the Portuguese notary also offers something like this? 

If yes, please ask for it, it makes life easier if the caseworker at the Finanzamt gets something they are familiar with, since that tells them straightaway:

"Ah, that is a document issued by a notary, therefore it is to be trusted."

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Great, thank you. Can the translation be done by us, or does it need to be by a recognized/official translator?

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10 minutes ago, ZybexXL said:

Can the translation be done by us, or does it need to be by a recognized/official translator?

 

Try with a translation you do yourself first, i.e. by making a copy of the original and pencilling in a translation into German of the pertinent sections.

Of course, also submit the original along with that copy with the translation on it.

 

However, the Finanzamt is in its right to ask for an "official" translation, but in most cases, they will accept the informal one.

 

Please also remember to ask the notary to include the Unterhaltserklärung form in the batch on which he puts his signature and seal/stamp, so that the Finanzamt can be sure that the form with those number is what your father-in-law wanted to sign (if he could have).

Otherwise, the Finanzamt may suspect that you switched Unterhaltserklärung forms, between the visit at the Portuguese notary and now, when you file your German tax return.

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3 hours ago, PandaMunich said:

 

In Germany, notaries have special seals they affix to their statements:

Maybe the Portuguese notary also offers something like this? 

 

 

Yes, they use the white/3D seal as well. Thanks for the above details.

 

Related question: I'm using ElsterFormular to fill in and simulate the tax filing, and I'm getting no consideration at all when adding the Anlage Unterhalt unless I remove the Pension that my in-law receives. I find it weird because the pension values are low... here are the details:

- I gave him €6000 in 2019 (€500/month)

- he got €7800 from his retirement pension (€650/month)

- his expenses for the retirement home alone is about 11.100€ (€930/month) - is there a place to enter this in the formular? I have receipts, of course.

- he has a few more expenses - medicine, diapers, some basic living stuff - add another €100-200 per month, but these I can't prove, not worth the trouble.

 

This year I will pay around €4000 in taxes (share gains). I thought I would get some relief with the Unterhalt, but unless I remove the Pension value, it doesn't reduce those €4000 at all. If I remove the pension, then my tax debt is reduced to ~1000€. Am I doing something wrong there? If a measly €650/month is considered enough to live for an old disabled person by the german tax office, I'd be extremely disappointed.

 

PS: Also, he lives in a home with 30 other pensioneers... do I put "30" as the number of persons living with him? Sounds silly...

 

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Should I enter the €11.100 expense on the "Werbungskosten zu Renten" field, right next to the Pension income? That also works, but I'm not sure it's the right place to put that.

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41 minutes ago, ZybexXL said:

If a measly €650/month is considered enough to live for an old disabled person by the german tax office, I'd be extremely disappointed.

 

It is, Portugal is in country group 2, i.e. they say that 75% of the Grundfreibetrag is enough to live on in Portugal per year, so in 2019:

75% * 9,168€ = 6,876€.

This works out to 573€ per month (in 2019).

 

18 minutes ago, ZybexXL said:

Should I enter the €11.100 expense on the "Werbungskosten zu Renten" field, right next to the Pension income? That also works, but I'm not sure it's the right place to put that.

 

No, since they aren't.

What they are "außergewöhnliche Belastungen".

 

The good news is that you can still claim what you pay for his nursing home, since his pension is less than 9,792€ in 2019 (= Grundfreibetrag + 624€ = 9,168€ + 624€), see here:  https://www.vlh.de/krankheit-vorsorge/pflege/heimunterbringung-kosten-von-der-steuer-absetzen.html  

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Thank you for the pointers Panda.

 

I simulated with the values in the "Anlage außergewöhnliche Belastungen", and I would get about €300 back. This barely covers the costs of getting the notarized documents, plus all the lost time, including a possible trip to PT just to handle all the bureaucracy. It's just not worth it - I think I'll just skip the whole think instead, less headache.

 

Disappointed :(

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Hello, 

The local administration in my country refuses to sign any foreign forms but they release the echivalent documents (proof of revenue, family composition, etc, in German, signed and stamped). Note that this is new and they had signed exactly the same form with the same info, the previous year. The tax administration in Germany refuses to accept the echivalent documents, insisting on their form.


Is there any way around this? Through a notary for example that fills the form and certifies is conform the state documents? 

Thanks!

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@PandaMunich
Thanks so much for the detailed post. I was supporting last year my wife as she was living in a non-EU-country for the whole year because her visa was delayed. 

 

Do I also need to provide proof of "in need" or "Bedürftigkeit" for my wife? I read some articles Steuertipps.de Link that for wife one does not need to prove this "in need" clause. Is it true? Please share your experiences.

 

Thanks. 

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2 hours ago, faraday007 said:

Do I also need to provide proof of "in need" or "Bedürftigkeit" for my wife? I read some articles Steuertipps.de Link that for wife one does not need to prove this "in need" clause. Is it true? Please share your experiences.

 

Well, let's have a look at the very first post in this thread: https://www.toytowngermany.com/forum/topic/296106-anlage-unterhalt-if-you-support-parentsspouse/?do=findComment&comment=3043721

 

On 29/05/2013, 01:47:05, PandaMunich said:

If you are supporting:

  • your needy parents or parents-in-law or needy grandparents or grandparents-in-law (who have to be at least 65 years old or have a medical certificate stating that they cannot work), or
  • your spouse&kids or unmarried parent of your child (no need to be needy; kids only eligible up to the age they finish their first job training, e.g. Bachelors degree, but maximum till age 25)

you can claim up to a certain amount per person, per year, for their maintenance.

 

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