What do you like about the German public schools?

[Guest]

I want a teacher who teaches.

 

(says my daughter)

 

She likes to play with friends, be with family read and draw in her free time. She is looking for direct instruction school mornings.

 

Hamburg has no real MINT school offering, just a bunch of aren't we great, were differentiating! bandaids which suck up kids free time after they are robbed of basic education school mornings.

 

After my daughter was placed in a second grade Math class last Sptember (all 96 children in her current school were put back in second basic grade Math in September )  and she complained to me that she was in a second grade/Kita mish mash group (NOT the children but the class offered to them, which is what many Hamburg parents want)  and it turned out she was right I went up the chain of command and was told to get her tested by a psychologist so they can then advise me so I did, but the results were rejected as math single-subject acceleration is not allowed in Hamburg, and in many Hamburg schools there is no real class in which to spring, just another worksheet/workstation Babysitting room.

 

I went back with my daughter to the psycological profile tester to see how we can handle this refusal as I unfortunatley have no alternative for her at this time in Hamburg despite intensive search and networking (my personal contacts are having the same problem at their schools here, one is even private and getting the same busywork babysitting worksheets my daughter gets) and he implored me to get her out of her current school asap but in Hamburg I have no alternative for her at this time and for Gymnasium I can find few which still do traditional teaching and they are all Latin/Greek/ESL/Music as far as I have found.

 

Niedersachen would match her probably better as it is less reformed, but I would need help from the German side of her family, I considered that before she started in Hamburg but could not do it alone.

 

My husband sees her on weekends now and wants her to stay at the school she is now. Daughter was hoping I could fix the teacherless classes, even if just the Math one, so she could stay in the neighborhood (lots of kids to play with over here, it's crawling with kids), and this would have been the best solution for me too, but I was rejected to replace with a tutor following the Bildungsplan the Flex und Flo busywork despite trying intensively for months on end to get approval so she pleads out of the Arbeitsblättergefängnis asap. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Frechesmaedl 16]

Hello Sonazeit, have you considered teaching your daughter yourself after school in math? I did this to accelerate my daughter. We use Singapore math. It has homeschool manuals too. Alternatively, she could visit a Kumon center in math. They have them in Hamburg and kids can accelerate in Math in thes centers. 

[snowingagain 5,441]

So, Sonazeit you are saying your daughter did try the Mathezirket, after all??

 

Okay for anyone else who might be interested here are the details of the MINT Mathezirkel in Hamburg for Grundschule pupils:

 

http://bildungsserver.hamburg.de/mathezirkel-grundschule/

 

 

Children from the 4th class only if they have regularly attended in the 3rd.  

 

[snowingagain 5,441]

 

10 hours ago, sonazeit said:

I have no alternative for her at this time and for Gymnasium I can find few which still do traditional teaching and they are all Latin/Greek/ESL/Music as far as I have found.

[snowingagain 5,441]

11 hours ago, sonazeit said:

Gymnasium I can find few which still do traditional teaching and they are all Latin/Greek/ESL/Music as far as I have found.

 

 

You are aware that at a MINT specialist Gymnasium, you don't just do MINT?  I don't understand the problem with Latin and Greek?  They sound extremely traditional, although the second (compulsory) foreign language is more likely to be a choice of Latin, Spainish or French.  English and Music  also compulsory.    You get a broad education at Gymnasium here, even if they are a specialist in some aspect.

 

What is this place like?

 

http://www.heisenberg-gymnasium-hamburg.de/unser-profil/mint

 

 

 

 

[Krieg 15,074]

You are just wasting your time, there is no good advice to her. sonazeit wants a school that does exactly what she says because her daughter is so special that she needs something unique. She wants the kid to be taught in a group but with things catered exactly to her, or better, to what sonazeit says is the best for the kid. Do you see the problem there? The only way to have that is cloning her daughter 23 times, and maybe cloning sonazeit as well 23 times and then finding a school willing to do exactly what the army of sonazeits say.

It is not the first time this drama happens, the "problems" started since the kid was in pre-school, and then in primary school the kid was moved at least once to a different school.

[kiplette 8,795]

I dunno, she seemed calmer after the change of school and it was actually OK I think, then the curriculum changed and everything fell apart again. 

 

Anyone know if @Mapleleafdude is still around? He was/is on the school parent committee for his kids' Grundschule and may have insider knowledge of what is going on in Hamburg, and know about the Gymnasiums too.

[Guest]

@sonazeit

 

If Berlin is an option for you, there are Math and Science oriented Gymnasien.

 

As far as I know, the Herder Gymnasium in Charlottenburg and Heinrich Hertz in Friedrichshain are very good.   I know 2 people who attended Hertz in DDR times and another whose daughter graduated around 15 years ago.    These schools participate and do well in Germany wide Math Olympics and such.   

 

https://www.berlin.de/sen/bildung/schule/berliner-schulen/schulverzeichnis/SchulListe.aspx

 

I have no idea about your background, so pardon me if you already know this.   Math is a huge field of study.   You can stimulate your daughter's interest in Math with books about puzzles, codes, or various obscure of Geometry which would not overlap with the school curriculum.   Instead of going faster on the track laid out by the school system, maybe you broaden the exposure to other areas so that your daughter is not so bored in the classroom.

 

Good Luck. 

[emkay 10,320]

3 hours ago, Krieg said:

You are just wasting your time, there is no good advice to her. sonazeit wants a school that does exactly what she says because her daughter is so special that she needs something unique. She wants the kid to be taught in a group but with things catered exactly to her, or better, to what sonazeit says is the best for the kid. Do you see the problem there? The only way to have that is cloning her daughter 23 times, and maybe cloning sonazeit as well 23 times and then finding a school willing to do exactly what the army of sonazeits say.

It is not the first time this drama happens, the "problems" started since the kid was in pre-school, and then in primary school the kid was moved at least once to a different school.

 

I too see a pattern here.  Parental best intentions can in fact be the most damaging in the early years. Grundschule kids, in my opinion, should be allowed to enjoy their childhood. Fun, friends, mess, adventure etc.  

 

The mother of one of my kid's private English pupils is a complete neurotic nightmare.  I can't even stand to open the door to her.  She literally traumatises the poor kid uphill and downdale. Whilst he's here without her, he's a lovely kid and enjoys learning English in a fun non pressure way.  The mother tells us that she and he have major issues when she tries to help with any learning. No wonder.  My kid will now be helping him in other subjects too. He managed a 2 Note in his last English test (previously 5 before my kid started teaching him) so proof that fun and low pressure can work in this age group.

 

Of course Grundschule is very important and from what sonazeit has described, the system in Hamburg does sound bizarre. I'm surprised that other Hamburg parents haven't commented. Maybe I missed something.  There is still time to select a suitable path of education.  I can't see how practical it would be to change Grundschule for the last year. Friends, familiarity and locationare very important. 

 

I spent my primary school years in England as a very backward kid.  No wonder as I could barely speak English.  No one ever thought in those days that they should advise my parents to get me English tuition.  At the age of 13 at secondary school, my lightbulb moment finally happened and I managed to do well in most subjects, notably maths and ironically, English. 

 

There have been many references here that the secondary level school must be Gymnasium. Is that selectable by parents in Hamburg? I only know that in our area, Gymnasiums have an entry criteria or selection exam.  I believe that in Bayern, at least near where we are as we are on the border, Grundschule teachers must make a recommendation for Gymnasium. 

 

 

 

 

[Guest]

Hamburg does not seem to have any academic selection criteria for Gymnasium.

This is a 'what do you like about the German public schools' major plus point for many parents in Hamburg.

Children with an elder sibling at the school already are automatically accepted and the rest of the spots are decided by meters from the school.

 

By Internet search I can see in some other Bundesländer there are still Gymnasium with a tradition of academic selection to form similar-enough-to-teach together groups.

The public Grundschule will though be hard for me to figure out from outside the local area. I need one that still does a lot of boring old direct instruction.

I ought to have it figured out a year before she started school and moved accordingly then. 

 

@snowingagain, thanks for the tip but I'm not looking for any differentiation worksheet Aufgaben for my daughter to do outside required school hours, or during school hours either at this point.  She clearly and consistently pleads for a teacher who teaches her school mornings. 

 

And thanks to everyone else as well for the useful feedback and suggestions!

[snowingagain 5,441]

@sonazeit

 

There are a number of Grundschule in Hamburg that help  gifted children.  This one in Eimsbuettel has a special Mathe group for gifted pupils:

 

http://schule-an-der-isebek.hamburg.de/

 

Other advice and help about gifted children in Hamburg:

 

https://www.bildung-und-begabung.de/begabungslotse/datenbank/bildungseinrichtungen/beratungsstelle-besondere-begabungen-bbb

 

 

[Guest]

Thanks snowingagain but my daughter just wants a teacher who teaches the children together, and this is being phased out in Hamburg for especially MINT subjects. It is being replaced with the Gates/Zuckerberg business model for babysitting the masses and since my daughter can't stand it I may have move out of Hamburg to a town or city where dirct instruction in MINT at a solid level is available from grade 5 upwards. But want to find and be sure of a specific Grundschule first, as I have experienced even schools very close to each other can be quite different.

 

The school you mentioned is still full, the second link you mentioned has 0 authority regarding what happens during the mandatory hours of the school day and is also to promote the Gates/Zuckerbug business model, the first step of which is replacing teachers, textbooks and real classroom discussion with worksheet and computer babysitting.

 

So, in this thread of good experiences with German schools, maybe a TTEr has an idea about  some Grundschule with strong teaching in a Bundesland with that available for grade 5 and up as well, latter with a MINT focus.