What do you like about the German public schools?

[kato 3,560]

The Sonderungsverbot is realized through state law though - in Bavaria through §96 BayEUG, which does not give an upper barrier.

 

Um eine Sonderung der Schülerinnen und Schüler nach den Besitzverhältnissen der Eltern zu vermeiden, sind, soweit notwendig, von den Trägern der Privatschulen Erleichterungen bezüglich des Schul- oder Heimgeldes oder Beihilfen in einem Umfang zu gewähren, der es auch einer für die Größe der Schule oder des Schülerheims angemessenen Zahl finanziell bedürftiger Schülerinnen und Schüler ermöglicht, die Schule zu besuchen.

 

The GG defines abstract law, not applicable law. The BVerfGE cited "170-190 DM" (not Euro) for 1986 btw. This is interpreted differently by various states, the 200 Euro barrier you cite iirc applies in some city states (Berlin and Hamburg at least). NRW for example instead thinks 500 Euro per month is perfectly fine too if the fees are appropriately reduced for poorer parents.

 

Baden-Württemberg also doesn't have an upper barrier (like Bavaria) but instead a maximum acceptable barrier - any parent sending their child to a private Ersatzschule in BaWü has to be able to pay at least 128 Euro per month regardless of household income. School fee tables are generally differentiating based on parental income (or are at least assumed by the BaWü MWK to be, see also below).

 

Additionally note that lunch, after-school care, boarding etc are not covered by the tuition and parents can be charged additionally for that. You can drop pretty much any cost into this one too, there's schools in BaWü that charge around 80-100 Euro per day for this. A Sonderung can still easily be done this way by simply only offering package deals (that's basically how e.g. Salem gets away with charging ten times the above maximum for day pupils without boarding).

 

(the above is mostly from the BaWü MWK answer to Kleine Anfrage Ds. 14/4806)

[Conquistador 11,153]

From what I understand, the Mathe Abi is now required-I think that's great. That said, a Norwegian family I know whose kid is now in his first year (Klasse 9) in Gymnasium here in Bavaria (he was enrolled in Singaporean schools from the get-go) tells me that the math instruction he has this year is pretty much what he had two years ago in Singapore.

[Kazalphaville 1,813]

 

Ersatzschulen (independent schools providing traditional exams) are only allowed to charge up to 200 euro a month.Sonderungsverbot

 

There are a few international schools with this status that charge much more.

[rosesandashes 7]

Okay, so I know you asked for a parent's perspective, but if you would like I can also give you my own. I did an Exchange year in a German Gymnasium. I come from America and am used to the NJ School System.

 

I think the most important Thing I can say is: It is not better, it is not worse, it is just different.

 

I think in the US we sometimes work more with the psychology of things. My teachers in the US would work towards finding a way for all learning styles and they really wanted to convince us to succeed.

German School teachers will teach you their way and if you fail then you fail. They aren't going to Change their way of teaching and it will always be the child's fault for not working hard enough.

 

So, personally I find American teachers WAY better than Germans, but the Thing about the German System is that the students tend to compensate for the lack of suitable teaching done by their teachers. So, both have good and bad Points there.

 

The amazing Thing about german Schools sytems is that there are always breaks and German children don't tend to be obsessed with workingworkingworking. I remember my first week in a German Gymnasium, I nearly had a fit over having so much time on my Hands and not having any work to do in the time given. I couldn't believe it and was stressed at not working continuously (go figure). By the end of the year I learned to enjoy the breaks and get the Little homework we were given done in them. This way I did very Little work at home and still had time to eat chocolate and sozialize with classmates.

 

I think we also have to realize that every School is different. If you are unhappy with the one School, try a new one. If you are still unhappy, I am sure there is some international or american School somewhere you can send your child to. Children can be rather amazing creatures and I am sure yours can cope to whichever School sytem they takepart in.

[jeba 4,364]

I think your question cannot be answered meaningfully since it is asked too broadly. It is a huge difference whether you are talking about a Hauptschule in Berlin-Kreuzberg with 90% kids of immigrants or about a Gymnasium in Munich-Bogenhausen with most of the kids from well-to-do families. In Bavaria some Gymnasiums even offer boarding facilities. There is also a lot of luck involved, e. g. when it comes to the number of pupils per class. In Bavaria, classes will only be split if there are more than (I believe) 31 pupils attending. So if you are lucky there will be just 32 kids in one grade, resulting in two classes of 16 and if you are unlucky, there will be one class with 31. That alone will already make a huge difference.

 

My kids had been visiting an American international school and have now been to public German schools (in Bavaria). My son (at the Gymnasium) says the level here is much higher than at the American school whereas my daughter (she just did the "mittlere Reife" at Mittelschule) claims the exact opposite. What both are saying is that they don't have as much repetition here as they used to have at the American school. There is also less emphasis on arts and drama as compared to the American school. If children are struggling they will be sent to extra classes in the afternoon, but not given as much individual attention as they were given at the American school (but that school had much smaller classes).

 

What you can like about all public schools in germany is that they are for free. What I specifically like about them in Bavaria is that they have become much more permeable over the last 10 years or so, meaning that you can still get to Gymnasium / Fachoberschule / University even if you were (only) at a Mittelschule.

[anne k 3,643]

 

There are a few international schools with this status that charge much more.

 

I may be wrong - I just know what I've heard from my husband, who started one of these schools, and I may not have been paying him full attention :-) - but as I understand it you could take them to court and complain they were violating whatever laws apply locally (see the post above). Or the authorities might do it themselves. As I say, I only know the vague details, but it might explain why the fees are so low.

[jeba 4,364]

 

There are a few international schools with this status that charge much more.

 

Maybe they can do so since they don't offer "traditional exams" and are not regarded "Ersatzschulen"?

[DoubleDTown 395]

As a parent, I like that the German schools do things like walk places. A U.S. school would be unlikely to take elementary school kids on a walk of much more than a few hundred yards.

 

What do I not like? In no particular order: (1) Obsession with use of a fountain pen and cursive writing (see other threads on this topic). (2) Erratic schedule. One day they start first period at 7:30, the next day it's 2nd period at 8:25, except every other week when it's 3rd period at 9:30; and they get out at 11:05, or 1:10, except the third week of the month when it's 12:15 on Tuesday, except not this week, etc. If a child is in Hort from 07:00 until 17:00 it really doesn't matter, but if they aren't it matters. (3) Pressure to get grades of no worse than 2 until February of 4th grade so that the student is able to get into a Gymnasium.

 

But then, I'm a barbarian who thinks it's a waste of time for my kids to have to learn Latin instead of a real language spoken by lots of people like Spanish or Chinese, I'd even settle for French. Oh, right, those languages are offered once a week as an afterschool activity starting in 9th grade so that makes for all that time frittered away on Latin... The last time I saw a job posting for a job with an E.U. government office, they didn't care if the applicant could read or write or speak Latin.

 

What else do I like about German public schools? The price.

[Conquistador 11,153]

Latin's not everyone's flavor of the month, but I'll wager that someone studying law or medicine would find it useful. Oh yeah, it and Greek also help in developing a very advanced vocabulary in English as well as any Romance languages. That said I definitely agree that Chinese needs to become more prominent in foreign language instruction in the schools here.

[anne k 3,643]

Not all the Gmynasien make the kids do Latin - or at least, neither of mine are studying it. I just know one school in Dresden where it is compulsory. Obviously, if there's just one Gymnasium where you live and Latin is compulsory there then you don't have that choice ...

[Gambatte 980]

We are a family of three and already have three different first languages, German is going to be number four, and we ARE struggling. Enough. I hope my daughter will not be forced to study Latin or Greek.

[westvan 9,706]

The Gymnasium my boys attend/ed (older kid graduated in 2011) lets them choose either Latin or French as a second foreign language starting in the 6th class. Spanish can be added later on.

 

You need to shop around if you want a Gymnasium with a specific focus - some have a language focus while others lean more towards the sciences.

 

I took Latin, German and French in high school and actually enjoyed Latin class very much.

[ValP 19]

Definitely don't worry too much. German schools ARE pretty good, at least Grundschule and Gymnasium. I think Realschule is quite okay, too. As far as discrimination against foreigners is concerned, fears are extremely exaggerated. I know so many foreign families with kids and ALL of them do well. A lot (if not everything!) depends on the parents' attitude - if the parents want their kids to go to Gymnasium, the kids usually (in fact, I am inclined to say "always") make it. Even if the grade point average is below the passing grade for Gymnasium, it is still quite possible to have your kid attend it.

[lmosdal 527]

--Schullandheim away for a week and the whole 'independent child' business of walking to school on your own. Both very empowering, I think.

[BadDoggie 1,576]

> What do you like about the German public schools?

 

"There's an end in sight."

Along with a strong grip on the language, most of my kid's bad habits were learned amongst natives. This is a country of whingebuckets, made ever more whingebuckety-er by their whingebucket parents.

 

woof.

[Guest]

If any TTers know of a good Grundschule in Germany for maths and science in which the children speak proper German please let me know the name and city or town it's in/near. I'm willing to relocate to most anywhere in Germany to get that for my daughter. She's requested a Mädchenschule (she likes playing with girls and has had more than enough of the wild Jungs) so if you know of a good one of those please let me know too.

[anne k 3,643]

What's your definition of "proper German"? I presume you are not complaining about the high numbers of Ausländer at the German primary schools near you?

[jeba 4,364]

You might want to check out Montessori schools. Especially for math their teaching materials are excellent beyond praise.

[snowingagain 5,465]

I find sonazeits posts quite confusing.

 

I think child has American Ma, German Pa. Goes to a Hamburg KITA she does not like as they teach religion and nothing much else and few (or even possibly no) native German speakers and lots of children had colds over the winter. Enjoys Turnen but not always able to get her there due to work commitments.

 

Ma wants more time for daughter to play with paints, water, free play, etc. Would have preferred to have sent child to a science focused Kindergarten. Wants to homeschool in the afternoons, following perhaps UK system in maths and English,

 

Due to work commitments Ma could not provide much English input, sometimes only 15 seconds per day, but while away from her she used a website to augment her English learning, From the same website daughter learned to read English at the age of 2 .

 

Would like recommendations for a Grundschule in Germany where there are German speaking children. Preferably science maths orientated.

 

Ideas anyone please!

[Guest]

@anne k I mean the school kids who don't speak grammatically correct German.

@snowingagain You summed up nicely my daughter's life to date. Thanks for taking the time.

@jeba Thanks for the tip.

 

I was wondering if any TTers know where I could find a list of some outstanding public (or cheap) schools in Germany or knew from experience the names of some such schools in Germany (so I can start seeing if I can get a job in the same town or city). With 2 science nerd parents a school district strong in that would be great. My 4 y/o requests a Mädchenschule so I'm open to those too. My family is in a not-top-of-the-line school zone to put it mildly right now so we probably have to move anyway and I was advised sooner the better so she can get used to the group of children with whom she'd start first grade.