What do you like about the German public schools?

[muchado 158]

I have lived in Germany for two years now. I have read a lot on TT and become an avid listener to parents with school-aged children. More than half my posts on TT are about schools. So this is a very important topic and I am still not convinced that I have done enough research. Perhaps, I am overthinking it. My husband says that it's alwas the disgruntled customers who leave bad reviews and they outweigh those who are satisfied with the product because those people rarely leave reviews. I agree.

I have read or heard very little from parents who actually LIKE the German school system. I have heard people who teach there or are married to people who teach in schools. They have nice things to say. I worked in the American public school system and I have nice things to say about it, as well.

I am really looking for a parent's perspective. Could you tell me what you liked about the schools? Please avoid making general statements as "My son turned out fine and is now working for a big company..." etc. I believe that has to do with your excellent parenting skills too. Regardless, it's more useful for my research to have more specific examples rather than general statements.

I'll start with kindergarten as that's been my only experience. (I know that it's not part of the school system).

I like the German kindergarten because it allows more freeplay and interaction with kids of all ages. I like the concept that the younger kids can learn from the older ones. I like how they pair up to go on field trips and the older ones sort of looks out for the younger ones.

 

Please share your experiences.

[sarabyrd 18,767]

Do I count as a parent if my kid graduated five years ago? Or do I count as a pupil if I graduated 32 years ago?

German education is the best you can get for free. Of course, the kid has to be willing and eager to learn. Go for it.

[kiplette 8,803]

I like the stuff you like about kiga, too, muchado. Vertical grouping, great at that age.

 

Grundschule - I like the age it starts at, most children are ready to sit and learn, I like how they start carefully and get really focussed.

I like how they teach Maths with understanding built in right from the start. I like how they get to really play at playtime. I like it that they can still come home at lunch time in most places, so that we can still be a family and do cool stuff. I like the expectation that parents will be involved in their children's education. I like that my mate who works afternoons can have a bus pick her kid up to go and play/eat/do homework in a safe environment without this pattern being forced on me, too.

 

Oberschule (Niedersachsen - word means Hauptschule and Realschule in one) - I like how much like a continuation of Grundschule this is. It has small(ish) classes and a safe feeling for these kids who are not so school-friendly. I like how it engages with the world of work from very early, to take account of the fact that these kids are going to be out of school younger. I like how it allows opportunities for engagement in interesting activities for free in the afternoons.

 

Gymnasium - I like that grammar schools still exist here for academic type kids. I like the feeling of classical education really mattering and having worth. I love that you can still learn Latin here, seemingly so irrelevant and yet such a great foundation. I like the widening of opportunities with dedicated classes for strings or brass etc. I like the cooperation between schools at the higher levels to allow for wider breadth of subject availability.

 

Special needs - I have found flexibility and understanding within this system, a desire not to 'break' a child who should clearly not be in any school at all, and a willingness to work with me to do the best we can. That there is not a strong 'system' for special needs in place has been a massive advantage on an individual level.

 

Generally I have found that there is enormous freedom within the German system as it currently is here, there are choices about year group, length of school day and activities, that are excellent.

 

muchado - I have thought a bit about this, and I like your positive question, it has been a good exercise! If you did a 'grim things' thread, that would also get a long answer from me, but on the whole, I think for people who are willing to work with it, the German system is pretty good. Its major problem at the moment is that there are clearly many parents who do not have the skills to engage, and their children are seriously let down.

It is also not for parents who think schooling is purely done at school.

 

edit - whoah! That was long. Sorry.

[katheliz 17,879]

 

 

It is also not for parents who think schooling is purely done at school.

 

So true! I think incorporating the parents is essential. My older children were schooled in the US until they were almost teens, and it never occurred to me to routinely oversee their homework and help them with math problems. Boy, what a difference with my younger sons, who had Kiga and primary grades in Germany. And when we returned to the US, I kept on top of their schoolwork.

Oh, yes, Kiga. They differ, of course, but Vierling's Lehrerin told me that the focus in their school was to teach the children how to play peacefully with each other, whether one-on-one or in small and large groups. That's a big task with three-year-olds. And in Vierling's case, they also taught him German while they struggled to understand his needs. That was also the case at Fuenfling's Kiga, though he knew more German when he started.

Music education in Fuenfling's school was far more sophisticated than in the US. They were playing simple Carl Orff children's tunes with percussion instruments - blocks, tambourine, etc.).

I was very happy with the education my younger children got, and the older ones as well. One went all the way through Gymnasium to her Abiitur and another got her Mittlere Reife. Vierling, who started to slump as he approached high school in the US, spent a year in Germany and learned again to study, so that when he re-entered high school as a sophomore, he blazed a trail of success.

Was I occasionally dissatisfied with German schooling? Sure. But Germans have the right to teach as they like and all five of my children benefitted from being schooled there.

[Feierabend 1,146]

I'd just like to put in a mention of the district music school system here. (Kreismusikschulen) These are subsidised local music schools offering instrumental tuition and usually also the opportunity to join ensembles and choirs. Many offer music making for tinies, or a course called Instrumentkarussel where kiddies can have experience with a variety of instruments before going for one seriously. The fees are very reasonable compared with private tuition and they also welcome adult learners.

[dessa_dangerous 13,315]

I personally know several people who went to German schools and didn't turn out to be kiddie fiddlers or car stereo thieves. I am not a parent but feel compelled to share my opinion that I personally find too many public schools to be within an unacceptable range of a McDonald's or other similarly unscrupulous peddler of unhealthy consumer goods such as alcohol, cigarettes and Die Berliner Morgenpost. Although I am not a parent I am still a tax payer and some day I will be footing the bill for the costs incurred by such careless planning. Perhaps if they taught creationism instead of ethics in school the children would be more responsible with our DINK contributions to the state. Etc etc blah blah blah.

 

_{sorry, something just comes over me when an OP tries to lay ground rules for "their" thread, I am powerless against it}

[Prosie 230]

Well, I like a challenge and I think it's a very interesting idea for a thread! Overall I tend to be in the negative camp, but it’s always good to look for positives as well so here goes.

 

The “late” starting age has its good side. Kids get to be little kids for longer. And they catch up amazingly quickly. My eldest daughter was nearly 7 when she started school, and after her first term her reading, writing and maths were pretty much the same level as her friends in England who’d been at school 3 years already.

 

I also like the strings and wind band classes. I’ve had kids in both and been impressed with what they achieve and the fun they can have. It seems to help the class bond together better, too.

 

Getting kids to do presentations in front of the class helps them learn useful skills. My younger daughter has gone back to England to finish school and she has noticed how all the presentations she did in her German school help her come across as more self-assured.

 

There’s a positive side to the “laissez-faire” attitude of most teachers we’ve encountered. It can help children learn self-reliance.

 

My daughter who is just about to finish Gymnasium loves it there and is really sad to be leaving. She had some severe struggles lower down the school but is very glad she persevered. She’s learnt a lot over a broad range of subjects and I think her qualifications will be highly regarded wherever she ends up living.

 

I sent my younger daughter and son to the Realschule but in order to keep this thread positive I shall say no more on that subject.

 

OK.I've managed half a dozen paragraphs of positive thoughts about the German education system. Now I need a lie-down.

[anne k 3,643]

I like the fact that formal learning starts late, too - it is similar to how it was when I was in school, in the days when you didn't get as many tests in primary school.

 

There has been less bullying and fighting at the kids' schools compared with the ones I went to.

 

I like the way school classes keep in touch and meet up after they have left school. That didn't happen at my school.

 

Parents seem to be seen less as slightly stupid customers on the other side of the counter, and more as equals who have a say in what goes on at the school; there's more interaction and input than I remember my mum having.

 

I guess it is probably good that kids have to learn all the main subjects up to school leaving age, rather than being allowed to give things up. They will probably learn that if you persevere you can learn hard things, too. And they will probably have a broader all-round knowledge.

 

I agree that being made to do presentations in class seems to be good for their confidence.

 

The kids' schools seem to put quite a lot of emphasis on practical learning for a job. My daughter is 15 and has just done a two-week Praktikum at a travel agency. This was preceded by lessons about the world of work, and afterwards they had to write up a quite academic-looking report. I think she has a better idea of how employment works than I did at that age.

 

The school system in general is good at practical preparation for work. You don't have to go to university to get a decent qualification.

[nilpoints 33]

The choice of extra curricular activities is good.

As a parent and a UK trained teacher there is very little else to say other than good luck and you need to

work within the system you have.

[Gwaptiva 7,116]

 

German education is the best you can get for free.

 

Not according to the PISA studies it ain't.

[EDS 24]

As mentioned above, I like the self-reliance that is expected in the German schools. With the expected self-reliance seems to go a bit more trust, as well. When my son was in first and second grades, if a child had some problems settling down to focus, the teacher would (not unkindly) ask the kid to go outside and run a lap around the building. It seemed like a common-sense solution to me. There are schools in the U.S. where kids aren't even trusted to go to the bathroom alone.

 

The focus of the Grundschule was academic. There seemed to be far fewer fluff activities than I remember from elementary school. With a shorter school day, the extras are left for families to arrange after school, which allows more individual choice.

 

I think my son has learned how to study and be organized at an earlier age than I did, probably related to the self-reliance expectation.

 

The emphasis on learning languages, and really being able to communicate in other languages, is great. I know so many people in the U.S. who studied French or Spanish in high school and university, but have never really learned to speak anything but English. Maybe the relevance of foreign languages is more apparent here.

 

EDS

[sarabyrd 18,767]

 

Not according to the PISA studies it ain't.

 

PISA, schmisa. As I said, you have to be willing and eager to learn. Education does not just happen, it's a two-way street.

[anne k 3,643]

 

There are schools in the U.S. where kids aren't even trusted to go to the bathroom alone.

 

I know this is meant to be all positive, but it is so hard ... when my son was in 1st year, he simply came back home one day and no-one noticed. At around the same time, a man was found loitering around the school toilets. He'd simply wandered in off the street. After that the children were told they had to go to the toilet in pairs. No locking any gates, no secretary's office with a view of the entrance. No secretary, indeed.

 

OK, I will try to keep my mouth shut now.

[Prosie 230]

 

 

...German education is the best you can get for free...

 

But so much depends on situation and circumstances, doesn't it? I have one child in the British state system and two in the German. Overall, for us, we prefer the British system. But that could just be the particular schools we landed up with. And that's what I'm afraid will make this whole exercise less useful for the OP. Yes, it's good to seek the positive. But we can all only speak for the experiences we've had and they might none of them be relevant for her kids, where they live, at the schools they will attend.

[janjan 742]

Being an academic type myself, married to a super-swot, we were both glad to put our children through a relatively rigorous system, where they were forced to do hard subjects if they wanted to get their Abi. My friends in the UK seem to either spend vast amounts of money sending their kids to private school, or move into the catchment areas of good schools. Daughter, another super-swot, loved it. Son hated it at the time but is now going to be a teacher.

 

I also quite liked the German focus on team work and oral skills, but perhaps only because my kids can both talk the hind leg of a donkey. I'd have failed miserably.

[sarabyrd 18,767]

What my Ma said about the German system: It teaches you how to learn as well as learning the material itself. I noticed this in later life when attending seminars or using new programs; you are accustomed to an all-encompassing approach and a logical mindset.

[westvan 9,706]

 

I know this is meant to be all positive, but it is so hard ...

 

It is hard. And it's good to keep in mind that the positives mentioned here refer to particular schools and not to the German school system in general since there can be HUGE variations. The important thing is to find a school that suits the child and go from there.

[kiplette 8,803]

With Grundschulen, it is not even just the school, you have to talk to people who have used the school before (most areas have a catchment area system for Grundschule, with various exceptions) and find out which teacher is recommended, which shocks me a bit, but it is oh so true and we have oh so been there. If you have no choice of school, only one entry class for that year, and the teacher is known to be crap, I should say that would be a decision maker, right there.

 

Back to the positive, if you have a great teacher, then unlike in systems which run schools as entities, he/she can be fab all on his/her own without any need to kowtow to anyone else's silliness. And that is a big plus.

[muchado 158]

Thank you all. I have to admit that some of your answers are scaring me but I did ask for your experiences. It's just that I had only read negative things about the school system and how they are especially hard on foreigners regardless of whether you live here long term or not.

Prosie, I would love a PM of your (positive and negative) experiences if you have the time or maybe they are already on TT?

I am married to a product of the German school system and I am quite impressed. However, things have changed in the last 30 years and I am not hearing very good things about the schools now. I know the education is far superior to what I taught. I am more concerned about the delivery of that education through the teachers and administration.

I have a relative who is about to enter the school system. The parents have been running around since Jan. getting him tested for all sorts of things so he can go to a special school. No ped. or education specialist can tell them what's wrong. However, he has several markers of autism or Aspergers. He is super smart so everyone just pretends he's going to be ok. His German parents think otherwise and are being unable to prove it. My kids are bright but they are toddlers so who knows what kind of learners they will be. I am very interested in them enjoying school and not stressing about it especially in elementary school. I have been there and done that.

It seems that schools are their own entities. So, we will have to explore the school itself. Can you tour schools here or is that reserved for incoming students only or at open house?

[Prosie 230]

muchado, I have sent you an EPIC PM!! Well, you did ask

 

In my neck of the woods you tour schools on their open days in the run-up to application season. We did know people who moved into the area partway through the year and got shown round separately.

 

For Grundschule, the Kindergarten had a scheme whereby a teacher from the Grundschule visited the Kindergarten kids regularly during their last year and took them for special lessons which included school visits. The parents weren't involved in that, though.

 

Best thing is to ask other parents for tips and inside information.

 

Speaking purely from my own experience, if you're looking for unpressured, enjoyable learning you'll need to look outside the regular German system.