Child starting school this year

[Metall 14,557]

I went to kindergarden in the US and playfully learned a little writing there.

In first grade in the US at age six, I was writing fairly well on lined paper

(still have some of those to amuse me), just like all the other children.

 

I was in Germany the first time right after that - they first put me (age 7) back into first

grade for a few days. The German kids played all day, learned (from what I remember)

very little beyond the most basic spelling, and I was bored mindless in spite of knowing German.

Was put into second grade (kids were learning to write in script, did nature hikes with the teachers,

crafts, beginning local geography/biology, started simple math) and did perfectly well after that.

 

In a nutshell - either be sure to put your child into first or even second grade, or a different school.

[Beuel 4,947]

 

First off, not all the kids are called back. Secondly is this only because she is normal shy or my husband called the lady out on her complete lie

They gave you the reason:

 

 

Then he was told she was flagged because she is bilingual (she speaks both completely fluently) and she did not attend Kindergarten.

No, they aren't all called back, because not all kids are bilingual and not all kids didn't attend kindergarden. Nothing bad really happened yet, they just want to spend more time with her to see if she will do fine in class. Why are you so upset? Nobody said she was stupid, on the contrary. Would you rather that they just ignore it if kids might need a little more time to learn to interact socially or need more German? As far as I understand your posts, nothing is decided, they just want to see IF she needs help.

 

Usually kids learn how to learn in first grade. That's what it is about, apart from the letters and a little math. And kids need to be able to understand, concentrate and get along with other kids.

[kiplette 8,795]

The fact that they are adding an extra layer of consideration to your daughter's school start is not a bad thing.

 

In our Grundschule, the process has grown enormously over the time that we have been there, because the teachers want as much information about the new starters as they can get so that there are no surprises. This is surely a good thing.

 

That your daughter has been selected for the extra evaluation because she is coming from a different background is no surprise. It is unusual that she is not coming from a kindergarten, so of course they want to see if she has issues with socialising. If you are hugely positive about how great this is going to be, time with a bunch of new kids, maybe some of them might not be so good with the German and need her help, lucky for them she will be there because she's so good at stuff and helpful, blah,blah, you get the picture, then she'll probably have a great morning and be the class star before she even starts.

 

They are not bad at this early school bit. It is a shame that your kindergarten was so rubbish. Normally the last year is pretty cool.

[gemini 2,074]

Thanks all for the info, especially Krieg who let me know the possible ramifications. My German spouse had never even heard of vorschule.

 

I always think it is best to go into anything like this informed and prepared, and now I feel I am.

 

@Beuel: My kid can understand (that has already been clarified), concentrate (not an issue), and get along with other kids (also not an issue). So it boils down to a shy kid going into a situation that results in shy kids feeling overwhelmed which makes them more shy and quiet. Her ultimate situation will be decided based on this brief interaction. An interaction that in my opinion, is not at all an indicative of how she will do in the classroom situation, because as I have said, she does fine with new situations once they are no longer new. If she were (hypothetically speaking) to be recommended to vorschule, that in my opinion is doing her a huge diservice. She is also physically very tall so being essentially "held back" would also always make her stick out like a sore thumb in the next few years. If she went into the classroom and they told me after a month there was an issue, I could totally understand...but that has never been my experience with her.

[anne k 3,643]

If they call you in to discuss the case, it's worth preparing a list of all the technical terms (Vorschule, Vorkurs, etc.) with the explanation in English for you to look at - in my experience it can be hard to remember the differences (the names are sooo similar and sound quite ambiguous). That way you'll know if they want you to repeat a year at kindergarten (Vorschule), to have some extra summer classes (Vorkurs) before school, or just to have extra classes in school. But for all you know at this stage they will agree with the other testers so far and say she's fine.

[Kazalphaville 1,813]

Makes my skin crawl, all this testing and checking over and above what is really needed when not all kids fit neatly inside the "schoolkid box". They all bash on about "individuelle Förderung" but that's all okay as long as all the kids start at the same starting line.

 

Flashes up all that is wrong about the German education system for me.

[gemini 2,074]

Thanks Anne will do.

[Beuel 4,947]

Gemini, I think they will notice soon enough when she overcomes her shyness and I think they are experienced enough to notice if she is just shy. And I wouldn't worry too much. She might pick up on it and it might make her even more shy if she knows this is really "important". And even if they do recommend her to vorschule, they won't force her to stay there if they notice she doesn't need to be there. As Metall wrote, they reasses.

 

ETA

@Kaz: On the other hand it would hold back 29 out of 30 kids if there's one kid who is just not ready. We had a girl in my first grade class who needed constant attention, otherwise she'd throw a hissy fit. The teacher was basically busy with her half the time. Not exactly fair towards all the other kids.

[Kazalphaville 1,813]

Reassessing is one thing. Supporting a child based on the results of that reassessment is quite another. Better than shifting the "problem" into someone else's court.

[Eupathic Impulse 335]

 

On the other hand it would hold back 29 out of 30 kids if there's one kid who is just not ready. We had a girl in my first grade class who needed constant attention, otherwise she'd throw a hissy fit. The teacher was basically busy with her half the time. Not exactly fair towards all the other kids.

Somehow this all works out in other school systems, as I've mentioned. Yes, there are occasional problem children, but frankly "social worker" is necessarily part of the job of a schoolteacher, like it or not.

[DaveyB2uk 69]

 

Makes my skin crawl, all this testing and checking over and above what is really needed when not all kids fit neatly inside the "schoolkid box". They all bash on about "individuelle Förderung" but that's all okay as long as all the kids start at the same starting line.

 

Flashes up all that is wrong about the German education system for me.

 

Not sure where you're from Kaz, but it's a tad harsh to complain about the German system overtesting at a young age. Britain is far more into testing at a young age (national testing at age 5 & 7) and from what my son's Kindergarten teacher told me last week, it's very similar in North America - she's Canadian. So actually as far as testing etc is concerned, I think it's a lot less (better in my opinion) here. Later is another matter...

[anne k 3,643]

The testing in the UK is checking their educational progress, isn't it, whereas this is checking whether they are mature enough to start school and have enough language skills to follow the lessons. Then children can be put back or forward a year depending on their needs - so it is a flexible system. In the UK, on the other hand, children have to start school within a certain period, and stay with the same year group: the tailored part comes in the form of extra help for those that need it. In Germany, extra help is provided as well as the chance to move back or forwards, so of the two systems the German one seems rather more flexible, if anything.

[Kazalphaville 1,813]

Never been national testing at age 5 in the UK and national testing at age 7 has changed so much that no new tests are being produced and old ones are being used. And Anne has hit the nail on the head perfectly, though the current move in Germany now is to get rid of "Sitzenbleiben" through doing exactly what is done in the UK and other English-speaking systems regarding support for children with differing needs. Only, I hasten to add, because Germany finally had to ratify the UN Convention directing inclusion. Problem is, teachers need to be trained first...

[westvan 9,706]

 

I always thought it was the teachers' job to do most of this stuff, at least it was in Canada, where I never heard of Vorschule and Einschulunguntersuchungen.

 

In Canada they also have a teacher's aide or special ed teacher actually in the classroom with the regular teacher if required.

[Kazalphaville 1,813]

As in the UK, US, Australia, NZ. We term it "starting from the child." Not "the child starting from where we want them to" as is the case here.

[anne k 3,643]

I think Sitzenbleiben is more of a problem; the child is actually in school, so their peers see them being put back, and they feel a failure. If they are kept on longer at kindergarten most children are not even aware of that. And even the effects of Sitzenbleiben depend on the child's character and how the parents and their peers deal with it: some children will feel worse about it than others and be teased or put under more pressure.

[westvan 9,706]

 

As in the UK, US, Australia, NZ. We term it "starting from the child." Not "the child starting from where we want them to" as is the case here.

 

Yes, I thought as much, although I'm not too familiar with those school systems.

 

Integrating special needs children into the regular classroom is still a novel idea in Germany even though some progress has been made.

[Kazalphaville 1,813]

You are right Westvan, although there is a heck of a long way to go just yet.

 

Interesting read on grade retention:

 

http://www.nasponline.org/resources/handouts/revisedPDFs/graderetention.pdf

[anne k 3,643]

Our school can't even afford a librarian or a full-time school secretary. I can't see an SEN teacher coming to every classroom any time soon. In my son's class there is a young lad with hearing difficulties, and he gets a special microphone (worn by the teacher), and the class size is at most 25 children. That's the closest thing I've seen to integrating SEN children here.

[Kazalphaville 1,813]

It needs a huge shift in political thinking and public spending, also a huge shift in mindsets. It's been described as a Jahrehundertprojekt by some states. In NRW, it's been delayed by a year from this spring to next academic year.