Child starting school this year

[gemini 2,074]

I'm sitting here pretty fuming.

 

My 6 American/German year old starts school in the Fall. She is bright as hell, but shy. She gets over her shyness pretty quickly, as soon as she is comfortable. There is no pathologic/spectrum shyness here. We moved back here when she was 5, and tried Kindergarten, but she hated it. Was bored as hell, and I don't blame her, it was a amall room and except for the morning sing along, were basically left on there own to play. Since most of the kids had been there since babies, she found it hard to make friends. She had one good friend, whose mother then pulled her out too, as she thought the Kita sucked also. After much discussion, we decided that this late in the game we would just keep her home. I am here two full days and on the other days we had a wonderful, young childcare person. They went to museums, parks, events, zoo, violin lessons, etc. She wasn't sitting around watching t.v all day. She had friends in the neighborhood that she would play with when they got home. We wanted her to really enjoy her last full year as a free kid!

 

She went through her origional school eval to make sure she was mentally ready...and passed with flying colors. The evaluator noted she was shy but no problems with whatsoever academically.

 

Then last week she had her "sign in" at school, where the kids also sat down with someone (I am not even sure it was a teacher or what), and again she was shy but passed academically fine.

 

Then the "teacher" said to us that "It is illegal to not send your child to Kindergarten". This is completely false, and my husband called her (politely) on it, but she was none too pleased.

 

Next thing I know we get a letter stating she has to come in for an addition 2 hr 15 min evaluation next week. No real explanation for what it is. I had my husband call, as my German is not good enough. We were told it was some kind of "scenario" where they put kids together like a normal school day to see how they do, and to see if the kids need "special help". Then he was told she was flagged because she is bilingual (she speaks both completely fluently) and she did not attend Kindergarten.

 

First off, not all the kids are called back. Secondly is this only because she is normal shy or my husband called the lady out on her complete lie. I do not want my kid sent to a "special class" or have ANY "psychobabble expert" messing with my kid. If she is SHY that is fine with us. Why is being shy a bad thing.

 

So has anyone else had any experience with this?

[anne k 3,643]

I have heard quite a few cases of bilingual children being sent to extra German classes, even ones who have grown up here - it seems they just want to be extra careful. It is just some extra help after school, nothing to do with psychobabble: just making sure they understand lessons. For the teacher it is hard to tell if a child is not speaking because she is shy or because her language skills are somewhat weak.

 

I know it is easy to feel hurt at the idea that your child might not be as good as others, or that you might be being scolded for not sending her to kindergarten to make sure her German was OK, but at the same time, don't forget that they cannot be expected to know your child as you do, and that part of their job is to ensure her language skills are good.

[gemini 2,074]

I would buy that if the testers didn't state...both of them...that her German is perfect. So this is really not an issue.

 

I would have no problem admitting, or sending my child to special langauge classes if I thought she needed it, but she doesn't.

 

I don't want her to end up in a class with kids who really don't speak German properly just because she is bilingual.

 

I also don't want her shyness treated as some kind of shortcoming. If she failed to integrate because of it, or was not doing well in school, that would be one thing, but I don't want a pre-emptive strike against her.

 

To a shy kid like my daughter, this kind of testing scenario, bunch or new kids/new adults, will cause her a lot of anxiety and stress and probably bring out her shyness even more. Where as if she just started the first day with the rest of the kids, she would be fine and over it within two days.

[Krieg 15,074]

They probably have doubts about her social skills because she did not spend enough time in the Kindergarten and that can be a reason to fail the "Einschulungsuntersuchung". Kids are supposed to be used to be with other kids on a regular basis before entering the school. If she really fails then your kid will be sent to the "Vorschule" which is some preparation for school in an environment that is more Kindergarten-ish. This Vorshulung can be done in a Kindergarten or directly at the Grundschule, it can be done at the same time while taking the 1st grade classes or your kid can be sent exclusively to the Vorschule depending on what's the offer in your area and what the people who evaluate the kids think. Worst case scenario she is sent back to Kita for a year.

[sarabyrd 18,767]

Cat had the same evaluation done 15 years ago, in spite of two years of kindergarten. Her birthday is 10 days after the cut-off date for those turning 7 that year and the school shrink was a total bitch about it, telling me to hold her back because the classes were going to be too big with all these exceptions being made. I wouldn't take it personally, but I would ask the Schulamt about how such cases are justified.

[gemini 2,074]

Thanks for the info Krieg, that is info I wwas looking for.

 

Because sending her into this testing situation with multiple new strangers is going to just result in bringing out her shyness even more.

 

This is so frustrating, as she is totally fine with kids. Introduces herself to kids in the playground and has friends. She would "get over" her initial shyness in about 2 days at school.

 

I will not send her to a Vorschule, so we will return to the USA earlier than expected if that occurs.

[gemini 2,074]

I also suspect having gone to a "Vorschule" is a big black mark on the wacky German school way of funneling kids and determining their future at such a young age.

[Eupathic Impulse 335]

I always thought it was the teachers' job to do most of this stuff, at least it was in Canada, where I never heard of Vorschule and Einschulunguntersuchungen.

[pog451 2,486]

Funny how you simultaneously assume that she will be fine in a real-life situation, but will fail any test intended to determine her ability to master that very situation.

 

How exactly do you "know" that she will "get over" her shyness in 2 days at school, seeing as she has apparently never actually been in that situation?

 

What causes your massive distrust in the school system that makes you assume they are trying to do a dirty on your daughter (quite apart form the fact that you yourself quite clearly DO think its a problem that your daughter is so shy)?

[Krieg 15,074]

It is not that bad. Many Kitas even have programs that by default the last year of Kita is a Vorschule year.

 

I think you are taking this like an insult to your kid.

[Eupathic Impulse 335]

 

Funny how you simultaneously assume that she will be fine in a real-life situation, but will fail any test intended to determine her ability to master that very situation.

Short tests have very strong limitations in the actual assessment of ability. I can easily believe someone will do well after a few days what they cannot do in a few hours.

[pog451 2,486]

 

Short tests have very strong limitations in the actual assessment of ability. I can easily believe someone will do well after a few days what they cannot do in a few hours.

 

Again, this assumes that the testers are incompetent lunks who have never done anything like this before, let alone evaluated a child like this before and that the test is, in itself, totally useless in doing what its supposed to do.

[gemini 2,074]

Because Pog, I have seen it again and again with her. She is initially shy with strangers, and then totally fine in a short period of time (hours if I know them, maybe a couple of days if I don't).

 

I think I made it clear that I do NOT think it is a problem with my daughter, which is why I find this frustrating. I totally agree with E.I that you can not necessarily make broad sweeping assumptions about children in manufactured, short periods of time. And, i don't think there is anything wrong with being shy, as long as it does not get in the way of social/academic functions in the broader sense.

[Eupathic Impulse 335]

 

Again, this assumes that the testers are incompetent lunks who have never done anything like this before, let alone evaluated a child like this before and that the test is, in itself, totally useless in doing what its supposed to do.

 

No, even excellently-administered tests and evaluations (I am sometimes an educator and have hired people after looking at their educational transcripts) in various areas are an extremely limited view into actual ability. Sometimes necessary, but limited.

 

In this case, I'm pretty sure other educational systems provide comparable results without special socialization tests. But who am I to argue with the German early childhood education system?

[Metall 14,557]

Don't put her back in the Kita or Vorschule - if she is bored by being older/more

advanced than the other kids in first grade later, this may cause her to totally

slack off and do nothing. I have actually seen this.

 

Just a thought - there is a popular theory in Germany that bilingual kids are at

a disadvantage. It's a lot of cock and bull about academic abilities suffering from

the horror of dealing with two languages.

(Interestingly, Dutch/Indian/Singapore etc. kids don't have a problem dealing with

wildly different languages.)

 

I was bilingual kid myself, and have done well in school in several countries.

My problems at that time stemmed from shyness as well as issues in family life

(which thank God you don't have).

 

For one thing, I would talk to the Schulamt and the teachers about your child

having had a well developed social life, maybe bring along the schedule of a typical

week (paper documentation goes over well with an Amt ).

 

Also, are there other schools in your area? Maybe this one is not a good choice.

I have seen kids crash and burn in one school, and recover pretty well after

changing schools, sometimes even the system (e.g. to an international school).

 

I am really happy you care for your child so well!

[anne k 3,643]

The testers said that her German is great, but how long did they see her for? And was your child alone during that test, or were you or your husband there, making her a little chattier?

 

I had the opposite problem when my daughter was in kindergarten: at a standard test she failed to say the words the doctor wanted, and the doctor said we needed to talk more German to her, as her German wasn't sufficiently developed. When I brought it up with her kindergarten teacher, who had known her for two years, she pooh-poohed the idea and said it was just shyness. People who just see your child briefly or in a stressful situation get a different impression of her skills to people who know her well; sometimes that impression might be more positive, sometimes more negative - it just reflects the fact that they don't know her.

 

Here in Germany, social ability is seen as something important, that will help you get on in life and do well at school. For that reason, children are given extra help to make sure they can function well socially (don't sit in a corner on their own, can talk openly, make presentations etc.). That doesn't mean that shyness is seen as an illness or something that calls your parenting into question. It's just seen as a possible barrier.

 

I used to be very shy at school, and would probably have benefited from a little help with that. The point of these tests is to improve the school experience for your daughter.

 

NB: 'Vorschule' is another word for kindergarten. Vorkurs Deutsch is a special language class before they start school. Deutschförderklassen are remedial German lessons in school, where those with poor German are put in a separate class. Deutschförderkurse are remedial classes where those with poor German are not put in a separate class but get extra lessons. Maybe your husband can go through the options with you. Don't forget that his translations could unknowingly be misleading, though - always a problem when you don't speak the language :-(

[gemini 2,074]

Thanks Anne. It wouldn't want her to go to Vorschule, as she will be 6 1/2 already...was bored before...and I can only imagine would be bored again. Kindergarten is not a legal requirement, and so not happy that we are being flagged for that as if we did something unimaginable.

 

In addition, we do plan on returning to the States Summer of 2014, and the kids there have already started school at 5 y/o, so I fear she would then be WAY behind.

 

BTW she was in Montassori pre-school the whole time we were in England (2 yrs to 4 1/2) and loved it and did great. Luckily I have their comprehensive assessment and can bring that in to show them she preformed well in all areas...including socially.

 

Her German is totally fluent. This is pointed out by all the Germans who love to comment on that. She and her papa only speak German together and always have, and her carer is German speaking.

[Elfenstar 1,676]

 

...have already started school at 5 y/o, so I fear she would then be WAY behind...

 

Can you even compare "starting school", so U.S. kindergarten at 5 and German school, first grade, at 6 years old? Is it that kids here don't actually get taught anything, spelling, etc. until they start school (1st grade?). that in kindergarten, which they sit in until they start 1st grade, that they don't do anything but play all day?

[Krieg 15,074]

They don't get taught anything is really a narrowed point of view, they learn other things.

 

And they do not just play all day, well that depends on the Kita itself, I know there are Kitas they do lot of free playing, but other ones balance it with lots of crafting, music, dancing, theatre, sports, etc.

 

Learning is not only ABC and math.

[anne k 3,643]

Kindergarten isn't a legal requirement, no, but it would be if they said that your daughter was going to have to wait a year before starting school on condition that she go to a kindergarten with extra German practice. But so far you don't know if that is the case; as you can see there are lots of other options.

 

I used the extra time in kindergarten to teach my daughter some basic English reading in the afternoons; she just went for 4 hours a day. Maybe if she didn't have to start school you could do something like that, taking advantage of the fact that you can teach her some English reading, which is very different to German.