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Nuclear war against Iran

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Bob, you're getting too fired up, and ignoring history.

 

The last "war" the US was involved in (WWII), and won, FDR (Dem) was in office, before that (WWI) Wilson (Dem) was in office. Lat Rep to win a "war", maybe Lincoln. Since then we have used military action (no war declarations) in many places and by many presidents both Dem and Rep. Most notably though Korea, Vietnam, Iraq I and II, throw in Grenada, Yugoslavia and Afghanistan. None very successful.

 

Now lets turn to they plan to win wars in respect to Bush 2, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

Planning to win elections, yes the Reps have won 2 in a row, immediately preceded by 2 Dem wins in a row, 3 Reps before that, Dem before that and so on and so forth.

 

That said, I agree that the US needs to be planning for an attack on Iran. What we don't need is the fact that a plan is in place to be made public during a very sensitive time. Diplomacy is the preferred manner is responding to this problem and if that doesn't work then brawn, damn the 40,000 virgin seekers. But lets not get all sappy and profess the greatness of a badly tarnished party and continue to support a lameduck president that will be remembered as one of the worst presidents in our history.

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Even though I think George Bush is a moron, I have to say I think he's the only leader* with the bollocks to tackle a problem like this head on (i.e. nuking the twats) instead of relying on diplomacy which, let's face it, hasn't really led anywhere.

 

*with the possible exception of Maggie. Or Regan, but then again he was bonkers.

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even if there's a possibility they'll do it to someone else? To kill innocent people instead of equipment?

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The last "war" the US was involved in (WWII), and won, FDR (Dem) was in office, before that (WWI) Wilson (Dem) was in office. Lat Rep to win a "war", maybe Lincoln. Since then we have used military action (no war declarations) in many places and by many presidents both Dem and Rep. Most notably though Korea, Vietnam, Iraq I and II, throw in Grenada, Yugoslavia and Afghanistan. None very successful.

your definition of "war" is incorrect. "War" does not have to be declared for military action to count as "war".

 

legal definition of war:

 

 

WAR - A contention by force; or the art of paralysing the forces of an enemy.

 

It is either public or private. It is not intended here to speak of the latter.

 

Public war is either civil or national. Civil war is that which is waged between two parties, citizens or members of the same state or nation. National war is a contest between two or more independent nations) carried on by authority of their respective governments.

 

War is not only an act, but a state or condition, for nations are said to be at war not only when their armies are engaged, so as to be in the very act of contention, but also when, they have any matter of controversy or dispute subsisting between them which they are determined to decide by the use of force, and have declared publicly, or by their acts, their determination so to decide it.

 

National wars are said to be offensive or defensive. War is offensive on the part of that government which commits the first act of violence; it is defensive on the part of that government which receives such act; but it is very difficult to say what is the first act of violence. If a nation sees itself menaced with an attack, its first act of violence to prevent such attack, will be considered as defensive.

 

To legalize a war it must be declared by that branch of the government entrusted by the Constitution with this power. And it seems it need not be declared by both the belligerent powers. By the Constitution of the United States, Art. I, Congress is invested with power "to declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water; and they have also the power to raise and support armies, and to provide and maintain a navy."

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@Beg_Tets

 

So what happens then? You nuke parts of Iran. Of course the chances are not all the facilities will be destroyed as we probably don't even know where some of them are.

 

What this will do however, is make them even more determined to develop nukes and certainly give them a justifiable reason to use them on the basis that the west struck first.

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The West can defeat Iran now conventionally, if necessary, without nukes. But what if we wait until they develop one?

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Fair point and not one I was trying to argue. Merely saying that nuking Iran doesn't set a good precedent or strike me as a sensible longterm move.

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even if there's a possibility they'll do it to someone else? To kill innocent people instead of equipment?

And do you think that by nuking Iran there won't be a shitload of innocent people killed??

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Ahhhh, of course I forgot. They also dress funny and speak a funny language, on top of that they pray to the wrong god. They'll get there comeuppance.

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[sarcasm mode]

 

Good thing TT isn't full of cynics...

 

[sarcasm mode off]

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Good thing TT isn't full of cynics...

I am a cynic and I refuse to comment.

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@ Olwain

 

"To legalize a war it must be declared by that branch of the government entrusted by the Constitution with this power."

 

I stand corrected, I appreciate your insight in this matter and have editted my previous erroneous statement.

 

The last "LEGAL war" the US was involved in (WWII), and won, FDR (Dem) was in office, before that (WWI) Wilson (Dem) was in office. Lat Rep to win a "LEGAL war", maybe Lincoln. Since then we have engaged in many ILLEGAL WARS (no LEGAL war declarations) in many places and by many presidents both Dem and Rep. Most notably though Korea, Vietnam, Iraq I and II, throw in Grenada, Yugoslavia and Afghanistan. None very successful.

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(Irony mode on)

 

Aaaaah, they only bombed in Serbia because they were "white christian" people

 

(Irony mode off)

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And do you think that by nuking Iran there won't be a shitload of innocent people killed??

My point was that, if it happens, the main aim will be to destroy "things" as opposed to indescriminately killing innocents.

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@ Olwain

 

"To legalize a war it must be declared by that branch of the government entrusted by the Constitution with this power."

 

I stand corrected, I appreciate your insight in this matter and have editted my previous erroneous statement.

 

The last "LEGAL war" the US was involved in (WWII), and won, FDR (Dem) was in office, before that (WWI) Wilson (Dem) was in office. Lat Rep to win a "LEGAL war", maybe Lincoln. Since then we have engaged in many ILLEGAL WARS (no LEGAL war declarations) in many places and by many presidents both Dem and Rep. Most notably though Korea, Vietnam, Iraq I and II, throw in Grenada, Yugoslavia and Afghanistan. None very successful.

well, your statement is still incorrect, or even more incorrect than it was before. On October 11, 2002, the US Congress passed the "Authorisation for the Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002" giving Bush the authority to attack Iraq if Saddam Hussein didn't give up his WMDs. Therefore the US was "legally" as well as def facto at war when they invaded.

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By your own definition you are wrong, authorization to use military force is not a declaration of war. By your definition, if a country is in a de facto state of war, ("War is not only an act, but a state or condition, for nations are said to be at war not only when their armies are engaged, so as to be in the very act of contention, but also when, they have any matter of controversy or dispute subsisting between them which they are determined to decide by the use of force, and have declared publicly, or by their acts, their determination so to decide it").

 

Then it must be declared to be a legal war and it was not declared, ("To legalize a war it must be declared by that branch of the government entrusted by the Constitution with this power. And it seems it need not be declared by both the belligerent powers. By the Constitution of the United States, Art. I, Congress is invested with power "to declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water; and they have also the power to raise and support armies, and to provide and maintain a navy"), which didnt happen, then it is, by your definition an Illegal war.

 

It's silly point to try and make that by authorizing military action congress declared war, congress can declare war, by declaring war.

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legally in terms of their own authorisation...not according to international law...and theres no way you can dispute that, any evidence you will google on that one will prove it.

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Dolfan: my first point: de facto the US have been at war many times since the second world war contarry to what you claim. Secondly, the authorisation of the use of force by congress is enough under the war powers act, i believe, to "legally" allow the President to go to war. Other countries have other rules about the authorisation of force.

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