Bitcoin - a decentralised digital currency

2,183 posts in this topic

12 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

As @silty1 said, this is exploitation of uneducated people. Reminds me of poor people living in remote locations in Portugal who pay 350€ (half minimum wage) for a taxi to a doctor's appointment in Portugal because they don't know they can ask the state for help.

And of course WU then facilitates all kind of illegal activities.

 

Of course it is exploitation but they have no other alternative.  Removing the only alternative is even WORSE than having a bad alternative.   Instead they should regulate them, but of course you probably prefer less government intervention since you seem to be a Free Market supporter.   And to be fair, Western Union fees and exchange rates are not that bad anymore, because there is finally some alternatives showing up (Ria, World Remit, etc), however for plenty of people WU is still the only alternative.   Technology is combining the best of two worlds, I send money from the comfort of my smartphone and my relative in a small village in the middle of the nowhere can claim the money in a tobacco shop without having a bank account and with no possession of any identification.

 

Anyway, that was not my point.   I tried to make a joke (and failed) about you wanting to forbid Bitcoin because some naive person sent his Bitcoins to a Nigerian Prince.  But now that I think about it, you are asking here for government intervention.  So your Free Market support is only when you find it convenient.

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"PayPal launches crypto checkout service"

 

Quote

LONDON (Reuters) - PayPal Holdings Inc will announce later on Tuesday that it has started allowing U.S. consumers to use their cryptocurrency holdings to pay at millions of its online merchants globally, a move that could significantly boost use of digital assets in everyday commerce.

 

Customers who hold bitcoin, ether, bitcoin cash and litecoin in PayPal digital wallets will now be able to convert their holdings into fiat currencies at checkouts to make purchases, the company said.

...

“This is the first time you can seamlessly use cryptocurrencies in the same way as a credit card or a debit card inside your PayPal wallet,” President and CEO Dan Schulman told Reuters ahead of a formal announcement.

 

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https://crypto-anonymous-2021.medium.com/the-bit-short-inside-cryptos-doomsday-machine-f8dcf78a64d3

 

Bitcoin's price is heavily manipulated by Tether (USDT) which is the primary US Dollar traded against Bitcoin. The centralization of Tether allows manipulation of the price of Bitcoin. If Tether is busted by the feds or otherwise collapses, the USD price of Bitcoin will collapse with it.

 

1. Take $10,000 USD and get 100,000 Tethers on margin from Binance.

2. Take the 100,000 Tethers and buy up bitcoin. 

3. Bitcoin price artificially rises luring in msm and greedy wall street firms to help pump the price higher--

4. Transfer the Bitcoin from Binance to Coinbase and cash out with gains in USD.

5. Rinse and repeat!

When will the SEC end this scam?  Is Tether a regulated bank? Do they have the reserves they claim?

Time will tell..

 

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9 hours ago, wien4ever said:

 

1. Take $10,000 USD and get 100,000 Tethers on margin from Binance.

2. Take the 100,000 Tethers and buy up bitcoin. 

3. Bitcoin price artificially rises luring in msm and greedy wall street firms to help pump the price higher--

4. Transfer the Bitcoin from Binance to Coinbase and cash out with gains in USD.

5. Rinse and repeat!

When will the SEC end this scam?  Is Tether a regulated bank? Do they have the reserves they claim?

Time will tell..

 

 

Rinse and repeat until you have no money because you spent it all in gas / transaction fees?

 

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Just thought I'd say thanks to the contributors to this thread, who inspired me to invest a very small sum back in 2017. I'm far too cautious a risk-taker to have made any huge sums :) but the 850€ after fees comes in handy this year.

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There are now 9125 crypto-currencies now (in 10 years!)

 

To put it into perspective, we have a 180 sovereign fiat currencies issued by governments (made over maybe the one to two hundred or so years since all these nations formed)

 

OK, so 95 of these cryptos have market caps in excessive of a billion dollars. How can anybody say these things are scarce? An unlimited number of them can be made in the market. Clearly this is inflation in the crypto space. 

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9 hours ago, wien4ever said:

There are now 9125 crypto-currencies now (in 10 years!)

 

To put it into perspective, we have a 180 sovereign fiat currencies issued by governments (made over maybe the one to two hundred or so years since all these nations formed)

 

OK, so 95 of these cryptos have market caps in excessive of a billion dollars. How can anybody say these things are scarce? An unlimited number of them can be made in the market. Clearly this is inflation in the crypto space. 

 

Of course there is inflation in some cryotos.  I have news for you, water is wet.

 

Some cryptos are designed to have inflation, some not.  Some are attached to FIAT prices.  Some are attached to gold prices.  Some have limited availability, some have unlimited availability.

 

And yes, there are way too many, that's normal when something is new.   And yes, plenty of them will fail.

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Is there a longtime place in the world for multiple cryptocurrencies? If not, and there's only space for one longterm, then hasn't Bitcoin already won? It's just too much bigger than the others already isn't it?

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17 minutes ago, theGman said:

Is there a longtime place in the world for multiple cryptocurrencies? If not, and there's only space for one longterm, then hasn't Bitcoin already won? It's just too much bigger than the others already isn't it?

 

There is probably not space for so many, but there is space for plenty of them.  At the moment some cryptos are trying to capture specific markets but it is still too early to even predict if such strategy will pay off.   BTC should one day move on and let better ones carry on, if that does not happen then probably the whole crypto scene will fail as intended and maybe become something else.   BTC is already a dinosaur refusing to get along with the days.

 

And while the haters in this thread tell us how cryptos are a scam, China continues moving towards the implementation of their Digital Yuan:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/05/chinas-digital-yuan-what-is-it-and-how-does-it-work.html#:~:text=The%20People's%20Bank%20of%20China,including%20Shenzhen%2C%20Chengdu%20and%20Suzhou.

 

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Captures my thoughts exactly. It's not my area of expertise but it feels like Bitcoin is not "the best" but it's just refusing to die and is maybe harming crypto currencies in general. Technology has a long history of "best" does not always win.

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51 minutes ago, theGman said:

Captures my thoughts exactly. It's not my area of expertise but it feels like Bitcoin is not "the best" but it's just refusing to die and is maybe harming crypto currencies in general. Technology has a long history of "best" does not always win.

 

The problem is the original BTC developer disappeared from the scene and the current developers have decided on key things in a way that they themselves can financially benefit instead of thinking in the whole community and the whole long term plan.

 

One of the biggest problems is the so called "Block size war".  Contrary to what people think, mining cryptos is not just wasting electricity doing useless calculations.  If you want to be strict you do not mine cryptocurrency, you mine BLOCKS and once you mine one you receive a payment for your service in new crypto, but at the same time the most important job of the miner is that with each block they mine they validate blockchain transactions.  So when you transfer cryptos you have to wait for your transaction to be validated, it all starts with the validation in a new block, which then will be replicated in the blockchain and if is up to both parties doing the transaction to decide how many validation mirrors are enough to considered it as done.   Now it comes the problem with the block size in BTC, with the current block size you can include only seven transaction validations.   This is by nowadays standards not enough because there are way too many transactions in the blockchain.   The original idea from Satoichi (original BTC developer) was that the block size will keep increasing with the time in order to escalate with the size of the blockchain.   But Satoichi is gone and the current developers decided not to increase the block size because that pushes the price of the BTC up and make BTC a commodity instead of a currency.   This create as well high transaction fees, so that's why at the moment it does not make any financial sense to pay small amounts with BTC.  And this is as well the cause of the speculation and high volatility.

 

Some more modern cryptos have worked in solving this problem, but most of the "big" ones still have some sort of transaction fees problems.   For example ETH (second biggest crypto after BTC) made an even bigger mistake, they allowed people to bid for the spots for validations in the new block the miners mine, so of course the miners will choose mostly the transactions that pay more fees, so transaction fees are ridiculous in ETH at the moment, going from $20 to $40 just to validate one transaction.  This in the ETH lingo is called the "gas" price.

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On 12.4.2021, 00:50:23, wien4ever said:

There are now 9125 crypto-currencies now (in 10 years!)

 

To put it into perspective, we have a 180 sovereign fiat currencies issued by governments (made over maybe the one to two hundred or so years since all these nations formed)

 

OK, so 95 of these cryptos have market caps in excessive of a billion dollars. How can anybody say these things are scarce? An unlimited number of them can be made in the market. Clearly this is inflation in the crypto space. 


@wien4ever : How dare you use logic, talk Bits and Bytes and Blockchain and Network effect and say you guys dont understand Bitcoin :)

To the experts on Bitcoin, I have one question: As far I know Bitcoin protocol is freely available, its nothing propritory like Coke or Becherovska, which is only known to some limited people making it. So theretically anyone can make a new Bitcoin, call it Shitcoin, and this will be probably same quality and do same things as the original Bitcoin - only that the Shitcoin costs 1 cent or 100th of a cent?

@wien4ever : Sorry, I am also trying to use some logic. But the "scarecity" logic of Bitcoin is beyond me - why something should be Scarce which anyone else can make and will cost Millionth less? 

I will try to explain a little : Lets say "XY Cars" starts to make a Mercedes C Class copy, because Mercedes has no propritory IP on C Class anymore. But the "XY C Class" costs only 500$ per car new, costs only 1% of the maintenance cost of original Mercedes C Class, and other than the name is 99.99% same as C class - with same performance. Only it costs 1% of the original. What do you think will the people buy ? Sorry again, my bad - using logic.

To those who made and making money on Bitcoins - Congrats. A wise guy once said most of the money is normally made in the time of the bubbles !

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On 12.4.2021, 12:50:17, Krieg said:

And while the haters in this thread tell us how cryptos are a scam, China continues moving towards the implementation of their Digital Yuan:

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/05/chinas-digital-yuan-what-is-it-and-how-does-it-work.html#:~:text=The%20People's%20Bank%20of%20China,including%20Shenzhen%2C%20Chengdu%20and%20Suzhou.

 


I would expect China to be fully behind "Digital Yuan" or "Paper Yuan", in whichever form it is. Same way EU will be behind digital Euro and Switerzland behind digital Frank whenever they come. They remains same for the state in both form. And thats what a currency was, is and should remain to be. Taxation and Money is what make a sovereign state. Why should it go to the hands of some elites who are anonymous ?

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2 hours ago, Goodbye_BlueSky said:


@wien4ever : How dare you use logic, talk Bits and Bytes and Blockchain and Network effect and say you guys dont understand Bitcoin :)

To the experts on Bitcoin, I have one question: As far I know Bitcoin protocol is freely available, its nothing propritory like Coke or Becherovska, which is only known to some limited people making it. So theretically anyone can make a new Bitcoin, call it Shitcoin, and this will be probably same quality and do same things as the original Bitcoin - only that the Shitcoin costs 1 cent or 100th of a cent?

@wien4ever : Sorry, I am also trying to use some logic. But the "scarecity" logic of Bitcoin is beyond me - why something should be Scarce which anyone else can make and will cost Millionth less? 

I will try to explain a little : Lets say "XY Cars" starts to make a Mercedes C Class copy, because Mercedes has no propritory IP on C Class anymore. But the "XY C Class" costs only 500$ per car new, costs only 1% of the maintenance cost of original Mercedes C Class, and other than the name is 99.99% same as C class - with same performance. Only it costs 1% of the original. What do you think will the people buy ? Sorry again, my bad - using logic.

To those who made and making money on Bitcoins - Congrats. A wise guy once said most of the money is normally made in the time of the bubbles !

 

This must be the crappiest example ever made in the history of logic.

 

Yes, you can fork BTC and make your own, that has actually happen many times, two of them are the two big BTC forks, Bitcoin-XT and Bitcoin-SV (Satoichi;s Original Vision), both forks were trying to solve the Block Size problem I described before.

 

And yes, you can start making cheap new-BTCs but ONLY at the beginning.  Once you have mined a reasonable amount the mining complexity will be so high that it is not worth to continue mining if you do not convince the market to buy your coins and that is what drive the price up.

 

Your analogy with Mercedes cars is extremely bad because the complexity and cost of making the cars stays more or less the same, it does not grow exponentially.   And actually reality shows ALREADY that people won't buy the new crypto just because it is cheaper.  The Market Cap of Bitcoin-XT and Bitcoin-SV is peanuts compared to BTC.

 

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1 hour ago, Krieg said:

 Once you have mined a reasonable amount the mining complexity will be so high that it is not worth to continue mining if you do not convince the market to buy your coins and that is what drive the price up.

 

Your analogy with Mercedes cars is extremely bad

 


Uups, my bad. I tried to use logic (Crappy or not) on a Bitcoin topic. My Apologies, Meister Logic.

 

„Complexity will be so high“ - Sounds to me one must constantly find someone who is willing to pay higher value, even when Bitcoin, Xcoin and Shitcoin has same characteristics , same usability and Zero „inneren Wert“. I think I read something called a „Pyramid Scheme“ somewhere someday back,where was it? Let me think.
 

„Mercedes Car“ - Ofcourse the analogy doesn’t work in a real world, Meister. If I need 100 ECUs, Engine, Gear box and 100s of other components of high quality it will be close price at the end. But in a binary world where C Class and Car X has no inner value and same characteristics ? And the only difference is one costs 50K and the other 2K ? Which one will I buy? Scratching my head!!

 

 

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The most valuable things about Bitcoin are its decentralization and trustless verification. Almost none (if any at all) other cryptos have these qualities. The security of its network is based on how much hash power it has, and no other network even comes close to the size of Bitcoin's.

 

So basically, the value is not in the "coin" (which is a very misleading name), but in the network.

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On 15.4.2021, 14:56:48, MadManEarle said:

The most valuable things about Bitcoin are its decentralization and trustless verification. Almost none (if any at all) other cryptos have these qualities. The security of its network is based on how much hash power it has, and no other network even comes close to the size of Bitcoin's.

 

So basically, the value is not in the "coin" (which is a very misleading name), but in the network.


" decentralization and trustless verification."
I am not an expert. But I thought the whole thing about Blockchain is "decentralization and trustless verification". So why no other cryptos other than Bitcoin has those qualities ? Coud you pls explain a bit ?

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