Bitcoin - a decentralised digital currency

2,289 posts in this topic

17 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Good, Bitcoin is currenty responsible for 0.55% of world's emissions. As a comparison, the entire air travel business area, including cargo transport, is responsible for 2%.

 

Yes, bad indeed.  I remember you celebrating China banning mining in 2021, that mining was mostly solar, wind, hydro and geothermal based.  Now they moved that mining to the US and to Kazakhstan and it is mostly fuel based.

 

Anyway, Free Markets and Capitalism, you love it.

 

 

P.S., To make the situation more laughable, some of those wind and hydro plants produce more energy than the amount the grid can take (because Chinese engineering and planning) so now after the ban the situation became worse.

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23 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

Yes, bad indeed.  I remember you celebrating China banning mining in 2021, that mining was mostly solar, wind, hydro and geothermal based.  Now they moved that mining to the US and to Kazakhstan and it is mostly fuel based.

 

Anyway, Free Markets and Capitalism, you love it.

 

 

P.S., To make the situation more laughable, some of those wind and hydro plants produce more energy than the amount the grid can take (because Chinese engineering and planning) so now after the ban the situation became worse.


Doesnt mathch up what you said (this article is from Sep,21) ...


" Of the 86 TWh estimated to be used in bitcoin mining, 63 percent came from coal power, mostly in Chinese provinces like Xinjiang
and Inner Mongolia. "
China's crypto ban could free up more energy than Finland uses in a year — Quartz (qz.com)

 

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8 minutes ago, Goodbye_BlueSky said:


Doesnt mathch up what you said (this article is from Sep,21) ...


" Of the 86 TWh estimated to be used in bitcoin mining, 63 percent came from coal power, mostly in Chinese provinces like Xinjiang
and Inner Mongolia. "
China's crypto ban could free up more energy than Finland uses in a year — Quartz (qz.com)

 

 

 

I have the Googles too:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/25/climate/bitcoin-china-energy-pollution.html

 

China Banished Cryptocurrencies. Now, ‘Mining’ Is Even Dirtier.

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7 minutes ago, Krieg said:

I have the Googles too:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/25/climate/bitcoin-china-energy-pollution.html


Too bad that it needs a paid subscription ):
Anyway, I believe you that your nytimes article says Bitcoin is now dirtier than before. Doesnt change the fact that 63% of Chineese btc mining used coal before China banned it..its doesnt match up what you wrote  " in 2021, that mining was mostly solar, wind, hydro and geothermal based "

Now USA, Kazaks and other btc enthus need to follow suit and make sure it doesnt use so much dirty energy. Frankly speaking, using  0.55% of world's emissions for something that does almost nothing is kind of stupid and crazy. But thats another thing.

 

 

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I know it is a waste of time discussing this here because haters gonna hate.  But whatever, it is impossible to trace down all the energy source of crypto mining, so you have to do "studies" that do educated guesses.  However those studies might have a political or financial interest, so depending on the types of study you read you will find that crypto mining in China was up to 70% from renovable sources (Source: fanbois) to 20% from renovable sources (Source: haters).

 

So yes, be happy, my wording does not match with the study you found.  It is OK, I am not here to win Internet battles, just to waste my time trying to show the reality of the situation.   And the reality is we are now worse than before.  And no, the solution is not to ban them from Kazakhstan, they will just move to another country, the solution is moving from Proof of Work to Proof of Stake, which is happening already, but it will take some time.  But BTC itself will probably never move from PoW.

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4 minutes ago, Krieg said:

I know it is a waste of time discussing this here because haters gonna hate.  But whatever, it is impossible to trace down all the energy source of crypto mining, so you have to do "studies" that do educated guesses.  However those studies might have a political or financial interest, so depending on the types of study you read you will find that crypto mining in China was up to 70% from renovable sources (Source: fanbois) to 20% from renovable sources (Source: haters).

 

Regardless how you present it it is a huge waste of resources. But wasn't the Bitcoin algorithm supposed to end mining at some point? Like, no more possibility to mine new Bitcoins, just trade existing ones (which are divisible, so there it no supply problem). 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Krieg said:

"I know it is a waste of time discussing this here because haters gonna hate.   However those studies might have a political or financial interest, so depending on the types of study you read you will find that crypto mining in China was up to 70% from renovable sources (Source: fanbois) to 20% from renovable sources (Source: haters)."
 


You dont have to feel personally "beleidigt", whenever someone writes something critical about cryptos and bitcoin - you arent one of the founders  who needs to treat it like own child. I have read plenty about too much coal being used in China for BTC mining, one doesn't need to be "hater" to criticize something "nicht in Ordnung". I hope you do admit the kind of fakes/manipulations in crypto space, with current 19000 Cryptos.

Anyway, whats you take on Bored Apes ? I saw some being sold for 200K, 300K (yes, that's 200000$)

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Looks like Crypto is headed for the basement. Where it belongs, Better underground forever

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59 minutes ago, yourkeau said:

Regardless how you present it it is a huge waste of resources. But wasn't the Bitcoin algorithm supposed to end mining at some point? Like, no more possibility to mine new Bitcoins, just trade existing ones (which are divisible, so there it no supply problem). 

 

 

 

Well, Cryptos are an alternative to banking, so it that's a waste of resources that would be your opinion, but providing that alternative will probably be the most revolutionary thing than happened since the Internet.

 

BTC mining will never finish, even if there are no more BTC to mine you still have to do it in order to authorize transactions, which is the other thing mining is responsible for (and miners get paid for it).   Anyway, mining will mostly go away in the future, most modern cryptos use Proof of Stake so they do not mine.  Ethereum will move to PoS.  But BTC won't, because the developers care more about getting rich themselves than following the original philosophy BTC had in its origins (to be a currency instead what it is today, -an asset-).  BTC developers even refuse to increase BTC buffer size to be able to authenticate more transactions with each mined block, and that's one of the main reasons the transactions are so expensive now and it makes no sense to use BTC as currency for small amounts.   Parallel solutions had to be implemented but they do not work as well as expected just because those a-holes do not want to play ball.

 

26 minutes ago, Goodbye_BlueSky said:


You dont have to feel personally "beleidigt", whenever someone writes something critical about cryptos and bitcoin - you arent one of the founders  who needs to treat it like own child. I have read plenty about too much coal being used in China for BTC mining, one doesn't need to be "hater" to criticize something "nicht in Ordnung". I hope you do admit the kind of fakes/manipulations in crypto space, with current 19000 Cryptos.

 

I do not feel offended, far from that, I criticize cryptos but with informed opinions, not the crappy FUD from the usual hater in this thread.

 

26 minutes ago, Goodbye_BlueSky said:

 

Anyway, whats you take on Bored Apes ? I saw some being sold for 200K, 300K (yes, that's 200000$)

 

 

It is nonsense of course.  They are doing with NFTs the same they did with cryptos, speculating and building get-rich-fast schemes that will hurt a lot of people and create a very bad image.    However it does not mean that NFT technology is crap or that it is useless.  It is the path to proof of ownership in the Metaverse.  And the Metaverse will happen.

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Something which has no worth, is worthless. People are starting to understand that.

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2 minutes ago, Acton said:

Something which has no worth, is worthless. People are starting to understand that.

 


Things are worth what people are willing to pay.  Some people are failing to understand that.

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1 hour ago, Krieg said:

I know it is a waste of time discussing this here because haters gonna hate.  But whatever, it is impossible to trace down all the energy source of crypto mining, so you have to do "studies" that do educated guesses.  However those studies might have a political or financial interest, so depending on the types of study you read you will find that crypto mining in China was up to 70% from renovable sources (Source: fanbois) to 20% from renovable sources (Source: haters).

 

That argument is deeply flawed! Just because they get energy from a "clean" source doesn't make them clean. That "clean" source could be replacing coal!

So ALL crypto energy consumption is BAD, independent of the type!

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Of course Krieg. People pay millions for art, stamps etc, but these things have an intrisic value. Not pie in the sky.

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1 minute ago, MikeMelga said:

That argument is deeply flawed! Just because they get energy from a "clean" source doesn't make them clean. That "clean" source could be replacing coal!

So ALL crypto energy consumption is BAD, independent of the type!

 

So it is clean only if you like its usage.  I see.

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yeah, probably people paying games on their mobiles, wastes as much power, when multiplied across the planet !!! or teenagers leaving the lights switch on all the time

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25 minutes ago, Acton said:

Of course Krieg. People pay millions for art, stamps etc, but these things have an intrisic value. Not pie in the sky.


So art can't be digital?  I see.   

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21 hours ago, Acton said:

Looks like Crypto is headed for the basement. Where it belongs, Better underground forever

 

Bitcoin was created as a result of the 2008 financial crisis.

 

Crypto (like everything else) is going down because of inflation (everyone wants to hold cash more specifically dollars).

 

Now the markets and crypto are going down because there is "talk" that the fed will hike the base rate by 0.75%.

 

Now if the central banks do not get a grip on inflation, expect crypto to come back much, much stronger.

 

Crypto is the result of what happens when you have incompetent central banks. 

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Right now things do not look promising at the moment, BTC is under the (~25k) threshold where mining is not a business because the energy costs are higher than the BTC price.  So it is expected that BTC mining will be slowed down, specially in places where electricity is expensive.  But this creates the problem that without enough mining transactions can't be processed, just a few days ago Binance had to halt BTC trading because the transaction backlog was too big.   If more people panic and sell but those sales can't be processed fast enough it will be ugly.   And all these are crappy problems from BTC that the developers refuse to fix because they like the status quo.  In theory people should just move and trade different cryptos but the whole market is still too attached to the stupid BTC so if BTC has problems everyone has problems.

 

Anyway, good time to buy.

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15 minutes ago, Krieg said:

In theory people should just move and trade different cryptos but the whole market is still too attached to the stupid BTC so if BTC has problems everyone has problems.

 

 

I normally keep my crypto in a staking account or a fixed saving account. Very rarely trade.

 

At the moment the crypto market is to unstable.

 

Will hold onto the crypto I have and see if the central banks can get a grip on inflation.  

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