Bitcoin - a decentralised digital currency

[Krieg 14,936]

On 1/22/2022, 7:34:52, MikeMelga said:

I have a problem with complex technological deceiving schemes. I have a friend who "invested" heavily on this and expects serious return and I can't even understand how this works to give her a good advice. On a personal level I don't need any of these, so I don't research it. I only speculate that the vast majority of people invested in NFT and crypto have no idea on how this works and will be deceived in the end. Same as most people playing in the stock market, especially now that apps like Robinhood make it too easy to invest and lose money.

 

You are correct in your concerns, most people do not understand anything, just like there are plenty of people blindly investing in shares.   But even if you are not interested in investing, I think you are making a mistake in not trying to understand how these things work, I myself have nothing in NFTs and maybe 2% of my portfolio in cryptos, but I try to follow what they are doing and specially I try to understand the technical part and I even had to work with it already once.    What we are witnessing right now is the birth of the Metaverse, which is going to be the next big step of the Internet, yes plenty of things will crash, just like the Dot Com Bubble, which didn't stop the Internet.     You ask plenty of good questions, but they are not intended to understand but to show us how all these is crap and it will fail.   You are in for a big disappointment, because the Metaverse is going to happen, the Blockchain will be at its core and some sort of cryptos will be the currency and some sort of NFTs will be the proof of ownership.

 

And about your friend, most probably he/she will lose money if he doesn't cash in time, but I thought the same some years ago about BTC and Editor_Bob got millionaire and I didn't.

 

 

On 1/22/2022, 7:34:52, MikeMelga said:

And in general I believe there is no "free money" so I'm always suspicious of any offer like that.

 

Our current system is based on infinite debt creating money out of thin air every minute.

[MikeMelga 7,255]

1 hour ago, Krieg said:

  But even if you are not interested in investing, I think you are making a mistake in not trying to understand how these things work, I myself have nothing in NFTs and maybe 2% of my portfolio in cryptos, but I try to follow what they are doing and specially I try to understand the technical part and I even had to work with it already once.    What we are witnessing right now is the birth of the Metaverse,

On my professional work I'm actually working with hardware for the "metaverse" or whatever that brings. So i'm not completely out of the loop. I have had an AR kit for a few years in my department, and it's impressive. VR is harder for me due to vertigo.

Although ultimately Neuralink-like interface

 

I have free time to spend on learning many different things and I need to stay focused. Energy transformation, geopolitics, etc are also important topics and I will have to make life decisions in 5-10 years that depend a lot on where I see the world moving to. I already made a few decisions, which provided very good returns. I don't have to focus on all.

 

Basically I think my generation will, as some of the previous, be disappointed with the future. We will have problems with our kids and grandsons isolating themselves in these virtual worlds. It's already hard with people looking at the phone all the time...

My plan is to just make enough money to "retire" early, buy a big sailboat and a comfortable house in Portugal and enjoy life. No metaverse on a sailing trip, that's for sure.

[ZA1234 170]

3 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

We will have problems with our kids and grandsons isolating themselves in these virtual worlds

No!!! You have to bring out the worst capitalist in yourself here: OTHER PEOPLES sons and grandsons (and daughters and granddaughters) do this. YOUR sons and daughters have to learn how to build the systems. Then they can also enjoy the yacht.

 

Look at your NFT friend. Perfect example. That friend is the smoker, you buy BAT and retire on your yacht with dividends, your kids go to work in steady jobs inventing e-cigarettes and marketing. But themselves are never smoke. This new business will be as easy as it was to make money off cigarettes decades ago. Then cigarettes are regulated, cigarettes are "bad", everyone feels better. People still smoke, BAT still pays dividends, kids can still get good jobs which think up better ways of smoking and selling these to people.

[ZA1234 170]

On the positive side, its mostly going to be your devices that are linked in the metaverse. Not you personally. But gaming and gambling and social media and advertising and Tinder etc will be there too. And people will spend money on these "services", in the same way they spend money on them today in the real world.

[karin_brenig 692]

has anyone ever calculated the environmental cost of these Bitcoin mining server farms?

The vast arrays of servers running hot 24/7 use enormous amounts of power, the quantity of waste produced from burned-out hardware is mind-boggling.

 

I find this article interesting:

https://news.climate.columbia.edu/2021/09/20/bitcoins-impacts-on-climate-and-the-environment/

 

 

[Krieg 14,936]

1 minute ago, karin_brenig said:

has anyone ever calculated the environmental cost of these Bitcoin mining server farms?

 

No, nobody has thought about it.

 

 

P.S, Mining was the bootstrap of the whole process and it's been replaced by staking.   It will take time of course.

[karin_brenig 692]

whether (or to what degree) Bitcoin staking is any "better" than mining remains to be seen.

For now, I'm just baffled by the sheer ignorance of all these "Fridays for future" and similar groups, harping about "climate change", telling everybody to drive electric cars and heat with pellets, while nobody even mentions this:

Quote

Globally, Bitcoin’s power consumption has dire implications for climate change and achieving the goals of the Paris Accord because it translates into an estimated 22 to 22.9 million metric tons of CO2 emissions each year—equivalent to the CO2 emissions from the energy use of 2.6 to 2.7 billion homes for one year. One study warned that Bitcoin could push global warming beyond 2°C. Another estimated that bitcoin mining in China alone could generate 130 million metric tons of CO2 by 2024. With more mining moving to the U.S. and other countries, however, this amount could grow even larger unless more renewable energy is used.

 

[fraufruit 41,963]

2 hours ago, ZA1234 said:

its mostly going to be your devices that are linked in the metaverse.

 

Hopefully, there will be devices without the metaverse option for those who don't want it.

[mtbiking 1,887]

2 hours ago, fraufruit said:

 

Hopefully, there will be devices without the metaverse option for those who don't want it.

 

Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated 

[mtbiking 1,887]

55 minutes ago, karin_brenig said:

whether (or to what degree) Bitcoin staking is any "better" than mining remains to be seen.

For now, I'm just baffled by the sheer ignorance of all these "Fridays for future" and similar groups, harping about "climate change", telling everybody to drive electric cars and heat with pellets, while nobody even mentions this:

 

 

Lots and lots of people mention that, actually.

[ZA1234 170]

1 hour ago, karin_brenig said:

environmental cost of these Bitcoin mining server farms

yes apparently Eth2 is going to be much more efficient. 

 

Seems EU and US thinking of banning bitcoin mining for this reason.

[ZA1234 170]

I could imagine that if bitcoin becomes "digital gold", the newer, lighter technologies will perhaps be the "paper" that transfers it around.

 

But its not all doom and gloom...some rigs use gas flares that would have flared anyway.

 

https://www.reuters.com/business/sustainable-business/oil-drillers-bitcoin-miners-bond-over-natural-gas-2021-05-21/

[wien4ever 446]

 

People are catching on and making more fun of it.. great video.

 

I'd say big chance 2022 is the year for a crypto crash.

[MikeMelga 7,255]

9 hours ago, wien4ever said:

I'd say big chance 2022 is the year for a crypto crash.

Let's hope those in need get out faster than the whales, but I doubt it...

Perhaps it fades slowly as owners move on to more environmentally friendly scams.

 

Or if the 2021 trend continues, Bitcoin market share will drop to near zero as users move to Etherium and others.

So perhaps we have a Bitcoin crash this year, but might just shift deluted buyers into other crypto.

[Goodbye_BlueSky 51]

There were many in this thread who vehemently argumented BTC and other Cryptos will be able to work and safeguard against sanctions without any problems.
I think we will have a test case, incase Western (Dollar based) economies puts real sanctions in crypto space. Exchanges like Binance are saying they are neutral, but what will they do when real ban comes? When we see that Russian Central Bank dont have access anymore to 40% of their $640 Billion foreign reserve, I have few doubts whats gonna happen . Whats your thoughts ?


" Washington takes aim at Russia’s access to digital cash as the U.S. and its allies levy heavy punitive measures against Moscow. "
Bitcoin sanctions could be next as DOJ unveils crypto crackdown plans (cnbc.com)

[MikeMelga 7,255]

Good point. Let's see how it evolves. Anyway, normal (reputable) business transactions won't happen in Bitcoin. So even if there is no ban, there are still strong sanctions.

[Krieg 14,936]

22 minutes ago, MikeMelga said:

Anyway, normal (reputable) business transactions won't happen in Bitcoin

 

What?  you can shop at Amazon or Apple and pay with BTC via third apps like Bitrefill.  You can use it for tons of things, paying your Netflix account, Spotify, Google Play Store, Apple Store, Steam, etc.  In Germany you can use it in Rewe, Ikea, Mediamarkt, Otto, OBI, Zalando, Saturn, Cyberport, H&M, Deutsche Telekom, C&A, and a very very long list, probably several thousands shops, restaurants, bars, etc

 

And Bitrefill is only one app, there are more, like Coincards or Bakkt.   The trick on some of those is paying via a gift card from the shop, but everything is done behind the scene, so for you you are just paying with it.

[MikeMelga 7,255]

You can't make a payment between suppliers with it. My wife's company forbade any form of payment from Russia, for example.

B2B usually only accepts bank transfer.

[wien4ever 446]

11 hours ago, Krieg said:

 

What?  you can shop at Amazon or Apple and pay with BTC via third apps like Bitrefill.  You can use it for tons of things, paying your Netflix account, Spotify, Google Play Store, Apple Store, Steam, etc.  In Germany you can use it in Rewe, Ikea, Mediamarkt, Otto, OBI, Zalando, Saturn, Cyberport, H&M, Deutsche Telekom, C&A, and a very very long list, probably several thousands shops, restaurants, bars, etc

 

And Bitrefill is only one app, there are more, like Coincards or Bakkt.   The trick on some of those is paying via a gift card from the shop, but everything is done behind the scene, so for you you are just paying with it.

 

 

None of those mainstream companies are *accepting* bitcoin. Bitrefill simply converts the BTC to Euros/Dollars , which is what they really accept.

[Krieg 14,936]

Ukraine is receiving donations in crypto to fund their war and after its relative success with the donations they are going to collect more money by selling NFTs:

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60613613