Bitcoin - a decentralised digital currency

2,194 posts in this topic

19 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

BTC is going down because the weak-fingers are scared and because the whales are FUD-ing like hell to drop the price and buy the dip.  

There goes the argument as a good store of value...

 

19 minutes ago, Krieg said:

 

It is a pain to see how you put all cryptos in one bag like they are all the same.  You do not like scarcity, there are cryptos that are not scarce,

I what?

19 minutes ago, Krieg said:

you do not like inflation, there are cryptos that are deflationary,

I actually like inflation. Deflation is really bad.

 

19 minutes ago, Krieg said:

It is now a matter of time, cryptos will be accepted everywhere in a couple of years. 

Maybe,, but certainly not Bitcoin and they will be certainly heavily regulated.

 

19 minutes ago, Krieg said:

You are like the old guy who hated smartphones 10 years ago.

Not all "new stuff" is good. 3D TVs are gone, for example. You're trying to portrait me as a laggard, but if you look at my posts regarding EVs, batteries, mRNA vaccines and many more topics, I'm actually an early adopter. I just didn't buy the crypto bullshit, because as a manager I see no benefit. It brings nothing new.

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1 minute ago, MikeMelga said:

There goes the argument as a good store of value...

 

The crypto world is still spawning and it is unfair to expect that it is born and already won the battle with the traditional financial system.  Of course the usual suspects fought cryptos at the beginning, but then they realised they could profit.  The current crypto "fight" is with the manipulation from the big corporations, cryptos are not moving now in a "natural" way, it is just the big players milking them.   But sooner or later the normal people will be more than them and things should get more stable.  In the mean time it is the wild west and it is not recommended to put in cryptos money you can't afford to lose.

 

1 minute ago, MikeMelga said:

 

I what?

I actually like inflation. Deflation is really bad.

 

Do you realise in English when someone writes "you" not always means you Mike?  Why sometimes it is so difficult to communicate with you even when people explain things like explaining to a 5 years old (tm) ?   My point is that there are choices for everyone.

 

1 minute ago, MikeMelga said:

 

Maybe,, but certainly not Bitcoin and they will be certainly heavily regulated.

 

They will be "regulated" as regulated as the Internet is.  I assume this is an analogy everyone understands.  Yes, there is some Internet regulation but it is not really regulated.

 

1 minute ago, MikeMelga said:

 

Not all "new stuff" is good. 3D TVs are gone, for example. You're trying to portrait me as a laggard, but if you look at my posts regarding EVs, batteries, mRNA vaccines and many more topics, I'm actually an early adopter. I just didn't buy the crypto bullshit, because as a manager I see no benefit. It brings nothing new.

 

Sure, that's why bad cryptos die and if you have no idea you can be badly burn. 

 

I have the feeling you hate cryptos because you knew early on about them but never put down the $1000 that would make you a millionaire.  Now you keep your hate because you still thinks it is too late.  So you make excuses about cryptos being useless.

 

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3 hours ago, Krieg said:

I have the feeling you hate cryptos because you knew early on about them but never put down the $1000 that would make you a millionaire.  Now you keep your hate because you still thinks it is too late.  So you make excuses about cryptos being useless.

 

Wrong again. I knew early on that Tesla was going to be big and failed to buy it at 20€ because I had no money at all at the time. Several years later, I bought it.

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Cryptocurrency is like Tinkerbell's light - its power is based solely on enough children believing in it. And unfortunately what is real is that its growth could single-handedly push global temperatures above the tipping point of 2° degrees Celsius.

 

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10 hours ago, MikeMelga said:

Bitcoin dropping further, as China signaled it wants it under control.

 

BTW, this is fake news.  Reuters published some crap fake news and every news outlet parrot it.

 

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Wow, so tweets of an incorrect & misleading article are able to make "digital gold" aka bitcoin lose 30% of its value in one day. Sounds like something I want to be my store of value! 

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Being volatile means it is volatile both ways. So, sometimes you get +50% and sometimes you get -50%. Over a years-long period, Bitcoin has beat every other asset as store of value many times over.

 

If you look at the flow to/from exchanges, there was a 10 minute window at the bottom of the dump where 18k BTC left exchanges. Big players bought very deep while it was cheap.

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It has already started to recover...

 

Investing in crypto today is like investing in Apple in the early 80s...

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2 minutes ago, UpToWick said:

Investing in crypto today is like investing in Apple in the early 80s...

In what sense?

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2 hours ago, MadManEarle said:

Being volatile means it is volatile both ways. So, sometimes you get +50% and sometimes you get -50%. Over a years-long period, Bitcoin has beat every other asset as store of value many times over.

 

If you look at the flow to/from exchanges, there was a 10 minute window at the bottom of the dump where 18k BTC left exchanges. Big players bought very deep while it was cheap.

 

Opening up the time picture it's indeed an advisable method to understand when volatility matters or should be expected, but the 'store of value' etiquete should not be adjudicated to an asset that only took a tweet form a conman to bring it down 50%... It was/is an excellent speculation purchase for many, congratulations to whom bought large amounts of it in 2012, but blindly believing that Bitcoin will change the world's financial system is quite a bet. 

 

Everyone mucked PM for being unable to break the extreme and powerful forces that can manipulate it's worth and price, nonetheless Bitcoin fanatics see nothing behind the implications of the current/future months will have within the space, and that only took a 'tweet' from a famous man to manipulate the value of a 'store of value'.

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You are giving Elon Musk too much credit, he doesn't really have the influence to crash or ramp BTC a lot, yes, he might have enough influence to create a smallish one or two days pump (and dump) situation, but not for what happened last week.    If we talk about Dogecoin and by transitivity other shit-coins in the dog-verse then that would be another thing, but even then he is not really responsible for the Dogecoin explosion, he as the opportunistic he is just jumped into it when he saw the chance.  The sad thing is that Dogecoin is actually crap and I am not sure it can be fixed.  

 

The current situation was caused by the usual suspects and all the crypto that have left the exchanges this week is a sad situation, that's the money from a bunch of newbies that is now in the pocket (or wallet)  of the usual richest of the richest.

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11 minutes ago, gdc said:

 

Opening up the time picture it's indeed an advisable method to understand when volatility matters or should be expected, but the 'store of value' etiquete should not be adjudicated to an asset that only took a tweet form a conman to bring it down 50%... It was/is an excellent speculation purchase for many, congratulations to whom bought large amounts of it in 2012, but blindly believing that Bitcoin will change the world's financial system is quite a bet. 

 

Everyone mucked PM for being unable to break the extreme and powerful forces that can manipulate it's worth and price, nonetheless Bitcoin fanatics see nothing behind the implications of the current/future months will have within the space, and that only took a 'tweet' from a famous man to manipulate the value of a 'store of value'.

 

I think you ascribe far too much power to the single tweet. There are many, many forces that have been cooperating if not coordinating to bring the price of BTC lower, in order to buy in lower. Large banks and institutions are capitulating, and they want to make it hurt as little as possible.

 

I posit that nothing about the price is as it seems on the surface, which is why I point to the outflow of BTC from exchanges. BTC is unregulated, so it is up to the market to correct itself, which manifests in the "wild" swings of price when it is being manipulated by the big players.

 

We are still very, very early in the adoption curve of cryptocurrencies in general, and Bitcoin in particular. As it is more widely adopted, the volatility will calm, but until then it is very open to price manipulation. This is a feature, not a bug. So far, it has proven to be a good one overall.

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1 minute ago, Krieg said:

You are giving Elon Musk too much credit, he doesn't really have the influence to crash or ramp BTC a lot, yes, he might have enough influence to create a smallish one or two days pump (and dump) situation, but not for what happened last week.    If we talk about Dogecoin and by transitivity other shit-coins in the dog-verse then that would be another thing, but even then he is not really responsible for the Dogecoin explosion, he as the opportunistic he is just jumped into it when he saw the chance.  The sad thing is that Dogecoin is actually crap and I am not sure it can be fixed.  

 

The current situation was caused by the usual suspects and all the crypto that have left the exchanges this week is a sad situation, that's the money from a bunch of newbies that are now in the pocket (or wallet)  of the usual richest of the richest.

 

So, summarizing: Bitcoin is an asset as manipulated as every other asset in the world by people with large amounts of sitting capital? Moreover, Bitcoin is an ever appreciating asset so the evil powers of these whales can increase unimpeded?

 

So, summarizing again: Slaves from bankers in the past, slaves from Bitcoin whales in the future?

 

I just cannot wait any longer for the future to arrive, I won't stand so much freedom!

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8 minutes ago, gdc said:

 

So, summarizing: Bitcoin is an asset as manipulated as every other asset in the world by people with large amounts of sitting capital? Moreover, Bitcoin is an ever appreciating asset so the evil powers of these whales can increase unimpeded?

 

So, summarizing again: Slaves from bankers in the past, slaves from Bitcoin whales in the future?

 

I just cannot wait any longer for the future to arrive, I won't stand so much freedom!

 

You are conveniently omitting that all of this manipulation occurring with cryptocurrencies is also occurring in the fiat market (and more). Transparent blockchains just allow you to see it. And even if BTC was 100% not manipulable, the price in USD would still fluctuate wildly due to the manipulation of the USD market.

 

You also gloss over the point that Bitcoin cannot be seized or debased the way that fiat currencies can.

 

But ultimately, nobody is forcing you to buy or use BTC. If that isn't freedom, then we just have very different definitions, I guess.

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If you know how to build a new financial system from scratch for everyone but leaving out the usual suspects then please tell us.    In the mean time the only thing we can do is understand how it works and play along.  If the movement succeeds, with enough people the whales won't have such powers.  

 

But it is difficult with so much FUD and so many youtubers giving bad advice.  That's why with every dip so many people get burn, mostly newbies.

 

Anyway, 1 year ago BTC price was 10k and it just went from 55k to 40k this week.  So except if you bought your BTC 3 months ago, you should be OK.  And the current dip is not even close to the 2018 crash and at the end everything was OK.

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19 minutes ago, MadManEarle said:

 

You are conveniently omitting that all of this manipulation occurring with cryptocurrencies is also occurring in the fiat market (and more). Transparent blockchains just allow you to see it. And even if BTC was 100% not manipulable, the price in USD would still fluctuate wildly due to the manipulation of the USD market.

 

You also gloss over the point that Bitcoin cannot be seized or debased the way that fiat currencies can.

 

But ultimately, nobody is forcing you to buy or use BTC. If that isn't freedom, then we just have very different definitions, I guess.

 

I'm not omitting that scenario, that's what I'm saying precisely: Bitcoin is as well a manipulated asset.

 

Freedom is relative... The USA citizens were free to trade and own gold until they were not: 1933, and then they were free again in 1977.

 

Assuming BTC will succeed on all or some of its 'purposes' under any given scenario is, at best, naive. Yes, you're always 'free' to move with your family to another jurisdiction, until your freedom there is as well relative to the rules suiting that enclave in any specific time, and then you'll have again the freedom to move to another jurisdiction and so forth.

 

It's irrelevant if I own or not a specific cryptocurrency, we're not talking of our specific investments...

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4 minutes ago, gdc said:

 

I'm not omitting that scenario, that's what I'm saying precisely: Bitcoin is as well a manipulated asset.

 

Freedom is relative... The USA citizens were free to trade and own gold until they were not: 1933, and then they were free again in 1977.

 

Assuming BTC will succeed on all or some of its 'purposes' under any given scenario is, at best, naive. Yes, you're always 'free' to move with your family to another jurisdiction until your freedom there is as well relative to the rules suiting that enclave in any specific time, and then you'll have again the freedom to move to another jurisdiction again.

 

It's irrelevant if I own or not a specific cryptocurrency, we're not talking of our specific investments...

 

I guess I don't understand your criticism of Bitcoin, then. You just don't like it because. . . . it doesn't allow for arbitrary wealth redistribution? Which mechanism would you prefer that would reduce the degree of manipulation? Or are you suggesting that manipulation is a binary option?

 

Ascribing unlimited power to any government is a weird stance to take as well. Can you explain more how you believe governments can act against Bitcoin transactions? Which purposes do you think are naive for Bitcoin to pursue?

 

Why are you bringing up whether you own it or not? I am just saying nobody can use force on you to own it, unlike fiat currencies which are enforced by police/military action if you don't use it.

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35 minutes ago, Krieg said:

If you know how to build a new financial system from scratch for everyone but leaving out the usual suspects then please tell us.    In the mean time the only thing we can do is understand how it works and play along.  If the movement succeeds, with enough people the whales won't have such powers.  

 

But it is difficult with so much FUD and so many youtubers giving bad advice.  That's why with every dip so many people get burn, mostly newbies.

 

Anyway, 1 year ago BTC price was 10k and it just went from 55k to 40k this week.  So except if you bought your BTC 3 months ago, you should be OK.  And the current dip is not even close to the 2018 crash and at the end everything was OK.

 

No one can claim to have a solution or substantial improvement for our financial systems, we've been doing empirical exercises for thousands of years and still cannot 'eradicate' or 'perfect' the main factor altering the system: human behavior; it's untenable.

 

I think that's the main Bitcoin feature that gets the most advocacy from the toughest recalcitrant Bitcoin supporters: It's probably the only asset that will induce the behavior needed to finally end with price signal manipulation...

 

... worldwide.

 

It's quite a claim!

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