Tax Return Amendment

18 posts in this topic

My Steuerberater has failed to carry forward my 2009 losses following the renovation of my tenanted house in Hessen. Hence I ended up paying taxes of 1600 euros for years 2010 and 2011 when no taxes should have been paid. The Steuerberater has repaid his accountancy fees for for these years amounting to 360 euros. My questions is can years 2010/2011 now be amended and the tax refunded by the Finanzamt?. My Steuerberater is suggesting this cannot be done? If this is the case should he also refund the taxes paid after admitting he failed to check the tax return?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He's right, those tax returns can no longer be changed.

Every Steuerberater carries professional liability insurance, and if he recognises that it was his mistake, his insurance will pay you those 1,600€.

 

However, I am a bit puzzled that a Steuerberater only charged you around 180€ a year.

That is a very low price, maybe that saying about peanuts and monkeys applies here?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the info. In a recent letter he has said that this mistake was not covered by his insurance, so I am wondering what to do next. Also, can any remaining losses be included in my 2012 return?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

In a recent letter he has said that this mistake was not covered by his insurance, so I am wondering what to do next.

 

That's not true.

He just doesn't want to lose his no-claims bonus.

 

If he won't claim on his insurance and isn't willing to pay it out of his own pocket, you could let your old Steuerberater "work off" the debt during the next 9 years, though I'm not sure I would trust him to not make a mistake again.

Though if you won't have any further big renovation costs there isn't much he can do wrong with a simple rental income declaration...

 

You could also change Steuerberater and have the new one attest that it was the old one's fault and get the money from the old one's insurance that way. But I don't know whether you want that hassle.

And a new Steuerberater will be considerably more expensive.

 

If you need a suggestion, Thomas Zitzelsberger comes up very often her on Toytown, you could ask him for a free quote on how much he would charge for your case.

 

 

Also, can any remaining losses be included in my 2012 return?

 

Yes, of course, but only the ones that remain as if he hadn't made a mistake in 2010 and 2011.

So there is no way of getting back the losses allocated to 2010 and 2011.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many thanks for your advice. I will contact my existing Steuerberater asking him to pay up in full, suggesting that he speaks again to his insurance company, and then if I do not get anywhere I will seek a new one that will take on my case.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

He's right, those tax returns can no longer be changed.

 

My taxes were just submitted (about 4 weeks ago) and there are a few things that need to be corrected, is it possible to still amend it or is it, as he told me, that ship has already sailed.

 

thanks

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the tax return hasn't been processed yet (call your Finanzamt and ask whether it has, the phone number of your Bearbeiter is written on your old Bescheid) then your Steuerberater can just submit the new version, it will supercede the old version.

 

If the tax return already has already been processed, then you wait for the Bescheid and do an Einspruch within a month of the date written on the Bescheid, in which you add all the stuff that you had forgotten in the first version of the tax return.

 

In either case, your Steuerberater will charge you additionally, since you will have created extra work for him.

So you really have to calculate whether the tax saving is worth that extra cost.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Panda,

 

This is a followup to my previous question regarding Einspruche Filing a tax return - help on how to file, since the present question deviates a bit I post it here under the appropriate topic.

 

A quick recall, I had filed an Einspruche contesting my 2010 and 2011 return calculation within 1m time period because some on my expenses were not considered.

 

I had a negligible salary but a high expenses due to studies. Therefore, I got back all the taxes paid even though all my expenses were not considered by the Finanzamt. I have now received a letter from the Finanzamt stating I cannot appeal since I am not affected. i.e I have been refunded all the taxes I paid already. I quote the relevant paragraphs from the letter

 

 

Ihre eingenlegten Einsprüche sind unzulässig: Durch die Einkommensteuerbescheide wurde keine steuern festgesetzt. Es handelt sich um sogenannte Nullfestsetzugen (die festgesetzte Steuer beträgt jeweils €0). Vielmehr haben Sie jeweils Steuererstattungen erhalten. Bei Nullfestsetzugen liegt regelmäßig keine beschwer i.S §350 AO vor. Diese ist jedoch zwingend notwendig für einen zulässigen einspruch.

 

Bezüglich Ihrem antrag auf aussetzung der vollziehung nehme ich wie folgt stellung

 

Antrag is unbegründet, weil keine ernstlichen zweifel an der Rechtmäßigkeit des angefochtenen Bescheids bestehen und die vollziehung keine unbillige härte zur folge hat (§361 Abs.2 AO). Zudem entstanden Ihnen durch die erlassenen Bescheide keine steuerschulden.

 

I had filed the Einspruche since I would want the expenses to be included as it will lead to loss which I can carry forward to the next year. This carried forward loss will lead to significant tax refunds for the next year. Now I have tried to search the internet for answers and it seems that the Finanzamt are correct to some extent and there are other contradicting decisions. Due to my limited German knowledge it makes it a bit confusing, so I list them below.

 

Article : http://www.haufe.de/steuern/finanzverwaltung/verbleibender-verlustvortrag-erstmaliger-erlass-oder-aenderung-e_164_73464.html

FG München, 24.05.2006 - 9 K 4559/05 : https://www.jurion.de/Urteile/FG-Muenchen/2006-05-24/9-K-4559_05

FG Düsseldorf · Urteil vom 14. August 2007 · Az. 6 K 447/07 K, f, F : http://openjur.de/u/127267.html

FG Berlin-Brandenburg, 10.06.2013 - 8 K 8043/12 : http://www.iww.de/esa/quellenmaterial/id/101137

 

I was back from my vacation this week and find the above letter from the Finanzamt (dt: 16 Dec) asking me to reply by 16 January. Can you suggest what is the recourse I can take from here?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

If the tax return hasn't been processed yet (call your Finanzamt and ask whether it has, the phone number of your Bearbeiter is written on your old Bescheid) then your Steuerberater can just submit the new version, it will supercede the old version.

 

If the tax return already has already been processed, then you wait for the Bescheid and do an Einspruch within a month of the date written on the Bescheid, in which you add all the stuff that you had forgotten in the first version of the tax return.

 

Thanks Panada. I was asking as his attitude was "it's done and I don't want to be bother with it again. Knowing this will help when I talk to him next week.

 

 

 

In either case, your Steuerberater will charge you additionally, since you will have created extra work for him.

So you really have to calculate whether the tax saving is worth that extra cost.

Thanks for the tip. Will update when I talk to him.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just to be very clear, what kind of case do you have?

 

Case 1:

taxable income without training costs: 10,000€

training costs: 20,000€

--> you should have gotten back all the tax you paid in that year and they should have stated a loss of 10,000€ in your Bescheid, which you could then tell them to carry forward (= Verlustvortrag) according to §10d EStG, since you have no older year in which you had paid tax in Germany, into which they could carry that loss backwards to.

 

Case 2:

taxable income without training costs: 20,000€

training costs: 13,000€

--> your remaining taxable income is 7,000€, which is below the tax-free amount (= Grundfreibetrag), so you do not owe any tax and should have got back all the tax that you paid in that year.

However, you did not incur a loss.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Just to be very clear, what kind of case do you have?

 

Thanks Panda for the quick reply. As per my application, it must have been case 1 for both 2010 and 2011. But according to the FA calculation it is Case 1 for 2010 and Case 2 for 2011.

 

To be more clear, the figures(approximate examples) are as below.

 

2010

Taxable income : Nil

Expenses (Actual) : 5,000€

Expenses (Allowed by FinanzAmt) : 2000€ (this was carried forward by FA)

 

2011

Taxable income : 4,000€ (already under tax-free amount)

Expenses (Actual) : 6,000€

Expenses (Allowed by FinanzAmt) : 1,000€

Loss brought from 2010 + expenses allowed by Finanzamt : 3,000€

Remaining income (as per FA) : €1,000 (under tax-free amount, so all the tax paid was refunded).

 

I want to challenge the finding because if the actual expenses are considered then I could carry forward the loss (of 7,000€) to 2012. Right now as per the finding of the FA I have no loss to carry forward to 2012.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In case someone was wondering, the answer is that they made a mistake and it should be possible to appeal. PandaMunich had written to me on a personal message.

 

The article of law §350 AO says that you are not allowed to do an Einspruch if you haven't been burdened, well, having a smaller loss than the one that you applied for is a big burden.

 

Therefore, I was asked to write a letter and challenge the finding of the Finanzamt.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update : In case anyone had a similar issue (see post 8), after sending the letter to FA pointing out as PandaMunich had instructed (see post 12), I got the letter from FA that my Einspruch would be allowed because there was indeed a burden. Quote from the FA as below

 

 

nach nochmaliger Überprüfung des Sachverhalts werden Ihre beiden Einsprüche als zulässig betrachtet, da Sie in der Tat durch einen erfolgreichen Einspruch einen höheren Verlustvortrag erzielen können.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@PandaMunich

Hi Panda,

 

Could you please shed some light on carry forward of the loss when the taxable income is less than "Grundfreibetrag"? My situation is approximately this -

Year 2014

Taxable Income - 0

Training Cost - 3000 EUR

 

Year 2015

Taxable Income - 7000 EUR

In this case would I be able to carry forward the loss of 3000 EUR to 2016 or would it already be reduced from my taxable income in 2015 even though my taxable income is less than "Grundfreibetrag"

Probably this question is quite trivial. But, my understanding was that the Grundfreibetrag should already be reduced from my net income i.e in year 2015 my taxable income should have actually been Nil as it is less than grunfreibetrag.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, in that case the loss from 2014 would have reduced your 2015 taxable income to 4,000€ and it wouldn't have done you any good at all.

 

Since your taxable income with 4k€ in 2015 would be less than the tax-free amount, the Grundfreibetrag of around 8k€, so you wouldn't have to pay any income tax in 2015 on those 4,000€ taxable income.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Panda, I have a quick question. I found that I should report some out of country income for the previous two years that I did not report. I received different information from an overseas accountant in that country. I want to go back and report this income to the Finanzamt. How is this received and will I have to pay penalties etc..?  Do you have any experience with this?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You write them a letter and declare the missing income.

 

If they didn't already know about this undeclared income, then you will only have to pay the extra income&solidarity tax, plus 6% late interest on that extra tax amount.

 

If they already knew about it and if - when they had explicitly asked you about it - you still denied having had that income, then they will also give you a fine, i.e. you have to pay the extra tax, 6% late interest on that tax and a fine.

For example, this pensioner couple hadn't declared 14,000€ interest income that they had had 2013 to 2015 from a Dutch bank, and when told by the Finanzamt that they had had a note froma bank about interest income that hadn't yet been declared, they still denied it. 

So in the end, they had to pay the extra tax (26.375%) of around 3,000€ on those 14,000€ undeclared income, plus 6% per year late interest on those 3,000€, plus a fine of another 3,000€.

 

Banks automatically inform the country of residence about interest income of their residents, so that they can then check whether their residents really declared it.

This is done via the AEOI (= automatic exchange of Information), for which the OECD developed the common reporting standard (CRS).

Please see here for list of countries that already do this automatic exchange of information

and here for details of what information gets transferred automatically:

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just realized that I should have declared ETFs I bought in 2015 and subsequently sold at a loss in 2016. They are non-German thesaurierend ETFs in a German bank so I thought my Freistellungsauftrag will cover the taxes I needed to pay.

 

I've submitted my tax declarations already for those years, and received the tax refunds. However, those tax declarations did not include Anlage KAP (because I thought it's already fine with the Freistellungsauftrag).

 

I would like to correct this mistake. Does anyone know how to submit the Anlage KAP even after I already received my tax refund? Any help/info would really be helpful.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now