Advice on choosing the right German kindergarten

[Max Rockatansky 3]

Hi there,

 

We're currently in the process of assessing a couple kindergartens for our 2.5 year old. One is bilingual but with somewhat limited facilities & programs, and the other is standard but features an enticing array of activities and well-designed rooms which focus on various concepts (encouraging artistic sensibilities, sport, etc.).

 

However we've noticed that many of these German kindergartens seem to grant a surprising amount of autonomy to even the youngest children. Don't get me wrong, I don't see a need for such institutions to be run with an iron fist per se, but the teachers we spoke to told us (if my feeble German is serving me adequately) that the children basically are given free rein to run around and choose whatever room and activity they want to get involved in. Our daughter tends to get fascinated with one thing and wants to do it ad nauseam for hours on end, which could be unfortunate if she is never nudged to try out other options which she may enjoy even more. They even have a regular "children's conference" where the toddlers get together to complain and demand changes from the adults (..."are the monkeys running the zoo here?" sort of thing...)

 

Even more importantly, our daughter is very headstrong (somewhat severe case of the ubiquitous "terrible twos") and independent to an almost dangerous extreme. We've taken her every week to "Kindersport" and whilst the other children join together for activities usually she will run off alone to check out whatever she happens to find interesting.

 

True, she's only two and a half so we're not panicking about this, but my main concern is, how is 3+ years of being allowed to run all over the place with very little structure supposed to prepare her for sitting in school for hours on end being forced to focus on lectures, when that time comes? Parents have a responsibility of course but the kindergarten environment etc. is also a major determining factor.

 

Has anyone else had these concerns or had any experiences (positive or negative) they can share with this kind of set-up? This is our first child so we're just trying to learn whatever we can and do the right thing.

 

Thanks!

[mlovett 8,681]

Let her have fun! She has the rest of her life to sit still.

 

My son was exactly as you describe as a toddler, and he did have a tough time [initially] in German Kindy. He is now being assessed for Asperger's at the school's request, just a little heads-up. He sits reasonably still in school now, at age 8. So try not fret too much.

 

My advice is to pick the Kita which gives you the best 'gut feeling'. First-time parents often over-analyze things; I know now that I did.

[muchado 158]

I had similar concerns but they were more about safety as in kids closing the doors in the room where the activity was being done WITHOUT any adult supervision. Stairs directly in front of one of the rooms and that led out onto the main road, and the main door is not always locked. Well, I addressed these concerns with the leiterin and in the end, we decided this K would not be a good fit for us. The lack of safety concerns were just too nerve racking for me.

However, I don't have concerns about what activity the kids choose. If my kid wants to play in the play-kitchen all day, so be it. She is 3 and I don't think playing in the kitchen is going to affect her life's decisions and career.

I would choose the Kindergarten where you feel welcomed and safe, and where you see your child growing even though your concept of "growing" may have to adapt to new standards. If you feel she is not being challenged at the K, you can always supplement at home. You have to know the reason you're sending your little one to K. I am a stay-at-home mom and I send my kid to the kindergarten for some social outlet. That is ALL. I don't expect her to learn anything there but if she picks it up, that's a bonus. And she has picked up a lot of things at kindergarten. Now, when she is 5 or 6, my expectations will alter.

[kiplette 8,804]

There is usually structure there, just heavily disguised as anarchy. We have never quite recovered from a visit to a kindergarten where a kid was sat alone in the corridor sobbing. The (English) Head just shrugged and said - sometimes we all need moments like that. Hmmm.

 

I think, having had a fair bit of experience of both the school-at-four and the kindy-till-six systems, that allowing them self-determination at that young age is actually way more healthy and less frustrating. If your daughter is exclusively interested in one activity she is learning concentration skills very effectively. She may change her interest over a period of time.

 

That toddler-power scenario will help her develop into a pushy, opinionated Proper German, which if she is going to stay in the system, will stand her in good stead.

 

Muchados concerns are different. We used one kindy where they 'lost' our daughter in the playground for 20 minutes at pick-up time - they didn't have the smallest clue where she was, and that felt bad.

[Max Rockatansky 3]

Thanks for the interesting viewpoints (and lost children stories- Yikes!). I also should have mentioned that the German kindergarten we visited was a sort of "middle ground"- the "halb offenes" or half-open concept where there's a little structure and it's not a completely disorganised zoo. Supposedly.

[Amber127 720]

Maybe it is just my kita but they are fairly organized. The whole day is planned out. They do have play time where the can play what they want and outside is free game. My child is in a Kneip kita. They have a sauna there and are on the beach all summer. Ok sometimes in spring and fall too depending on the weather. I find the sauna strange but whatever.

 

We had problems with not enough supervision outside between 3-4:30 after enough complaints the are finally two people out there with kid kids. I agree with going with your gut feeling. Mine just ended up being a good one and close to home. Though I do disagree on their definition of healthy food. Screw sodexo

[katheliz 17,879]

Vierling's Kindergarten, which he attended from three (no German at all) to five years (fluent in German) was a lovely place, in a little Ort near Rosenheim. His teacher told me that their goal for all the children was to have them able to play together in groups, without fighting. She said some Kitas permitted only three kids at a time in play spaces, but that she felt it was important that they should all get along; the teachers all worked hard at this. I'd suggest you ask the heads of the different Kitas you're scouting what their mission and vision are, and go with the one you feel is the most comfortable fit for the plans you have for your child.

[Elfenstar 1,676]

I really love reading these discussions though there are so many on TT about this. Especially now that I am here in S'Pore and there is so much structure, even for the older babies in the infant group (til 18 months). I'll be facing this when we return to Germany.

 

When I first visited daycare centers here, I said I let my son crawl all over the place and he seems quite curious, likes to explore, and the director said yes, most mothers of Caucasian babies are like that, whereas the Asian mothers would make their babies sit still. He was very honest and very serious and I thought to myself how in the hell could I get my (then) 9-month-old to stay put?

 

I think a bit of structured playtime does my son a world of good. When he's in his playpen and has only one set of toys, he does focus on that, but when I give him free reign, he is all over the place!

[King Kamehameha 10]

MUNICH: I have a 4 month old and was told while my wife was 7 months pregnant that we're too late registering for a Kita (Kindertagesstätte). Insane, but true. I was laughed at multiple times; told to come back on the first thursday of the month between 3pm and 5pm. When I did, the girl in charge left early despite reconfirming the appointment 2 days earlier. Oh, how I wish I could treat my potential clients like that. The next location had a Polish girl speaking english to the kids and wanted to know if we'd like to fork over EUR 1000 a month for a spot. Thanks, I'll pass.

 

I think I'll patent a pregnancy tester which automatically sends a positive test result to the city and signs you up on the waiting list.

[litker 0]

Wow. We're currently in Australia, looking to relocate to Germany (my husband is a dual citizen) and were wondering about the availability of childcare places for our 2.5 year old and 6 month old girls (will probably be 3 & 1 by the time we settle). It sounds like we are in for a hard time. Is that kind of wait only for English-speaking kindergartens in city centres?

[Für Elise 3,847]

 

Even more importantly, our daughter is very headstrong (somewhat severe case of the ubiquitous "terrible twos") and independent to an almost dangerous extreme. We've taken her every week to "Kindersport" and whilst the other children join together for activities usually she will run off alone to check out whatever she happens to find interesting.

 

True, she's only two and a half so we're not panicking about this, but my main concern is, how is 3+ years of being allowed to run all over the place with very little structure supposed to prepare her for sitting in school for hours on end being forced to focus on lectures, when that time comes?

 

My daughter was like that, and still is at 3.5 if she has taken against the activity on offer. Kids learn social behaviours like joining in activities through seeing other kids do it, which is one of the secret skills kindergartens teach. Likewise, the year before they start school they do Vorschule, teaching them the sitting-still aspect of learning.

 

We were really lucky in finding a local kindergarten that my daughter loves and that we like too. They have very little obvious structure in the day's play (play inside, play outside, eat your Brotzeit when you're hungry) and yet a large amount of secret or incidental structure (singing at 9.00, specific activity or generic indoor play at 10.00, lunch at 12.00, outside play at 1.00) so the kids learn almost by osmosis that certain things happen at certain times. Lessons don't need to be overt for small kids, they'll pick up the skills they need at their own pace just like they learn grammar and word order without formal lessons but just from hearing you speak.

[Shippym 25]

Our daughter will be leaving a German state KITA in two weeks. She was here half days from 16m on.

Where I live in Lower Saxony, there are no options in public daycarees for a child under the age of 13m and they tend to only take children at the start of the new school year (Aug).

 

Positive:

*13 kids with three preschool teachers

*Small warm group; very friendly

*Nice outdoors area for the children

*socialization/structure for breakfast / lunch at specific time and children sit together and eat

 

Negative:

*all children together, boring for the older children

*activities were limited (occasional singing or art project)

 

Our solution was a private nanny for the afternoons when I worked. We do regular field trips to the Zoo, museum, parks, international groups and read every day as well as art projecs almost every week. In the afternoon, she has the music school once a week as well as "kinderturnen" another afternoon.

 

For Kindergarten which starts in two weeks, I was frightened off by the large groups offered in our town where the groups are 25 children of mixed ages between 3 and 6 with two preschool teachers. The entire kindergarten she should attend has 90 children.

My German husband and I wished for smaller classes (8 children to one teacher), more structure and one-on-one interaction. Our daughter does not do well in a large group and could be the one sitting in the corner. For that reason, we decided on a private English kindergarten in the area and still have our private nanny for the late afternoons and the school breaks.

Advantages:

better fits in with our priorities

Disadvantages:

much more driving

additional cost

 

Our plans are still that she will attend a German primary school and can stay in contact with the German neighbors via the afternoon activities.

 

My suggestion is to evaluate your own and your child's needs and see what is available in your area. If this is the right solution, let's see in a few months!

[hedgehog2 15]

 

MUNICH: I have a 4 month old and was told while my wife was 7 months pregnant that we're too late registering for a Kita (Kindertagesstätte). Insane, but true. I was laughed at multiple times; told to come back on the first thursday of the month between 3pm and 5pm. When I did, the girl in charge left early despite reconfirming the appointment 2 days earlier. Oh, how I wish I could treat my potential clients like that. The next location had a Polish girl speaking english to the kids and wanted to know if we'd like to fork over EUR 1000 a month for a spot. Thanks, I'll pass.

 

I think I'll patent a pregnancy tester which automatically sends a positive test result to the city and signs you up on the waiting list.

 

What was wrong with the Polish girl?

 

 

Wow. We're currently in Australia, looking to relocate to Germany (my husband is a dual citizen) and were wondering about the availability of childcare places for our 2.5 year old and 6 month old girls (will probably be 3 & 1 by the time we settle). It sounds like we are in for a hard time. Is that kind of wait only for English-speaking kindergartens in city centres?

 

It's not that bad everywhere and depends on a couple of factors like child age and location.

For over 3 year olds it's easier as I think there's a law tht says they're entitled to a place in kindergarten, hence they're given preference over smaller kids on waiting lists. Location also matters, it's easier to find a spot in a smaller town than in one of the big cities.

For reference, I went to the Rathaus to enquire about a place for my older than 3 child and 3 weeks later he started kindergarten (public one in a smaller town, no knowledge of German).

[El Jeffo 42,135]

 

What was wrong with the Polish girl?

 

If they promise you native speakers, you expect native speakers.

[hedgehog2 15]

I've seen no reference to native speakers in the post I've quoted. But if this is indeed the case, then I totally agree.

[bethk 228]

Yeah, I had my reservations about the half-open concept for my son. He's generally well behaved, but I just don't find the self-directed thing that appropriate for such small children. I also am not a huge fan of the mixed age groups. But good luck finding a Kita that doesn't feature both of these concepts to some degree because they're both extremely trendy!

 

Anyway, I ended up choosing the Kindergarten that I had the best gut feeling about (or rather, I had the good luck of being chosen by them ) He's now been there for about 6 months. He did become slightly harder to manage as a result of going there because he learned to think of what he "wants" as of paramount importance. It took him a few months to realize that at home, he has to consider what others want. Also, I wasn't totally happy with how he was being treated by the older kids at the beginning, but now he seems to have gained their respect. It also annoys me a bit that the somewhat grueling field trips they go on at least once a week seem much more manageable for older children, but I digress...The scariest thing for me was realizing that the era of having more or less complete control over how he was treated/what he was going to be exposed to was OVER. Not worth overthinking the inevitable, as long as the place seems decently run.

 

In spite of these reservations, I'm pretty satisfied all around. I would prefer the reality check of being in an environment where he is told what to do a little bit more and asked to cooperate, but it just ain't gonna happen here. Pushiness and argumentativeness are considered virtues after all... Good luck!

[Enjoylife 2]

Hello All,

 

Need advice on whether to put my kid in the German kindergarten or wait for the Bilingual ones. They have a huge waiting list.

 

The background- we are an expat family, my son is 2.5 years old, he understands and speaks English and our mother tongue. We are here in Germany for a couple of years and will eventually move out.

 

I am confused whether putting him in a German kindergarten will be good in the long run.

 

Please suggest.

 

Thanks!

[Elfenstar 1,676]

At what age can a child start kindergarten and can they start mid-year, not necessarily at the start of the academic year? I ask b/c our wee one was born in Feb and it just occurred to me that when we return from abroad, he'll be 2 1/2 and I am not sure if he would go to a childcare center for a year until he is 3 1/2 or we should look for a kindergarten right away.

[anne k 3,643]

Kindertagesstätten (Kitas) are from children age 0 to 6. Usually the first three years are known as Kinderkrippe and the last three years as Kindergarten, but it is mostly in the same building and more or less the same thing. You can start any time of year, but may find yourself on a waiting list. In the US, kindie is the first year of school, right? In Germany it is not: it IS a childcare centre.

[Krieg 15,112]

In South Germany they make a difference between Kita and KiGA/Creche. Kitas are meant for 3 years and above IIRC. In North Germany we call all of them Kitas and each one has its own rules for starting age, some take babies, some take from 2 or 3 y/o.

 

Actually most places are given to start the second semester of the year, around the beginning of August. But sometimes it is possible to find places other months of the year. You may as well find a Tagesmutter if he/she is too young.