Question about Zertifikat for Integrationskurs

40 posts in this topic

On 8/27/2018, 8:02:09, syedalisajjad said:

 

That "participated" bit is not required. Only this certificate is required, doesn't matter whether you attended the course or took the tests privately. See attached the screenshot of the certificate i got from BAMF. 

 

 

IKZ.jpg

So there's something that is not really clear anywhere online: there are two different types of certificates. The one you have just specifies you successfully participated in the final test for the course, not the course itself. There is another type of certificate that can be obtained only after participating in 4 units of an integration course, and that is the one that normally, consistently qualifies for citizenship after 7 years. 

 

The relevant section of the law:  "Weist ein Ausländer durch die Bescheinigung des Bundesamtes für Migration und Flüchtlinge die erfolgreiche Teilnahme an einem Integrationskurs nach, wird die Frist nach Absatz 1 auf sieben Jahre verkürzt." (https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/rustag/BJNR005830913.html)

 

After hearing reports that people were told they could not apply until 8 years with a certificate just based on taking the final tests, I asked about this via email and they clarified the two different types of certificates (emphasis mine): 

"vielen Dank für Ihre Anfrage.

Eine Voraussetzung für die Einbürgerung ist der rechtmäßige Aufenthalt in Deutschland von mindestens acht Jahren. Die Frist kann gemäß § 10 Abs. 3 StAG auf 7 Jahre beim Nachweis der erfolgreichen Teilnahme an einem Integrationskurs verkürzt werden.

 

Der Nachweis der erfolgreichen Teilnahme an einem Integrationskurs bzw. der erfolgreichen Teilnahme am Test „Deutschtest für Zuwanderer“ (DTZ) und dem Test „Leben in Deutschland“ (LID) kann durch ein Zertifikat bescheinigt werden.

 

Das Bundesamt stellt das Zertifikat in zwei Varianten aus. Die erste Variante bescheinigt nur, dass die beiden Abschlusstests (Deutschtest für Zuwanderer und Test „Leben in Deutschland“) bestanden wurden. Die zweite Variante, dass der Teilnehmer mindestens vier Kursabschnitte (Sprachkurs oder Orientierungskurs) besucht und die Abschlusstests  bestanden hat. Das heißt, nur beim Besuch von mindestens 4 Kursabschnitten und Bestehen des Abschlusstests kann auch eine erfolgreiche Teilnahme am Integrationskurs bescheinigt werden.

 

Die zuständige Einbürgerungsbehörde trifft die Entscheidung, ob die Voraussetzungen für eine Fristverkürzung vorliegen. Bitte wenden Sie sich daher mit weiteren Fragen an die Einbürgerungsbehörde.

 

Weitere Informationen zum Thema Einbürgerung finden Sie auch auf der folgenden Internetseite.<https://www.integrationsbeauftragte.de/Webs/IB/DE/Service/FAQ/Einbuergerung/faq_node.html>

 

Ich hoffe ich konnte Ihnen weiterhelfen und wünsche Ihnen für die Zukunft alles Gute!"

 

However, at the end they seem to indicate that the individual Einbürgerungsbehörde has some leeway in deciding what does and does not qualify. So while they indicate that only the actual participation in at least 4 course units and receipt of the certificate certifying that fulfills the letter of the law ("Teilnahme am Integrationskurs"), maybe it is worth trying with the certificate based on the tests in case they either do have the leeway to accept the certificate based on the tests or don't understand this distinction between the certificates. 

 

This can't be guaranteed to work though, because a B1 German test + the orientation course test (as the integration course certificate without participation proves) only fulfill the minimal, normal requirements for citizenship after 8 years.

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10 hours ago, Zeitbuch said:

So there's something that is not really clear anywhere online: there are two different types of certificates. The one you have just specifies you successfully participated in the final test for the course, not the course itself. There is another type of certificate that can be obtained only after participating in 4 units of an integration course, and that is the one that normally, consistently qualifies for citizenship after 7 years. 

 

The relevant section of the law:  "Weist ein Ausländer durch die Bescheinigung des Bundesamtes für Migration und Flüchtlinge die erfolgreiche Teilnahme an einem Integrationskurs nach, wird die Frist nach Absatz 1 auf sieben Jahre verkürzt." (https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/rustag/BJNR005830913.html)

 

After hearing reports that people were told they could not apply until 8 years with a certificate just based on taking the final tests, I asked about this via email and they clarified the two different types of certificates (emphasis mine): 

"vielen Dank für Ihre Anfrage.

Eine Voraussetzung für die Einbürgerung ist der rechtmäßige Aufenthalt in Deutschland von mindestens acht Jahren. Die Frist kann gemäß § 10 Abs. 3 StAG auf 7 Jahre beim Nachweis der erfolgreichen Teilnahme an einem Integrationskurs verkürzt werden.

 

Der Nachweis der erfolgreichen Teilnahme an einem Integrationskurs bzw. der erfolgreichen Teilnahme am Test „Deutschtest für Zuwanderer“ (DTZ) und dem Test „Leben in Deutschland“ (LID) kann durch ein Zertifikat bescheinigt werden.

 

Das Bundesamt stellt das Zertifikat in zwei Varianten aus. Die erste Variante bescheinigt nur, dass die beiden Abschlusstests (Deutschtest für Zuwanderer und Test „Leben in Deutschland“) bestanden wurden. Die zweite Variante, dass der Teilnehmer mindestens vier Kursabschnitte (Sprachkurs oder Orientierungskurs) besucht und die Abschlusstests  bestanden hat. Das heißt, nur beim Besuch von mindestens 4 Kursabschnitten und Bestehen des Abschlusstests kann auch eine erfolgreiche Teilnahme am Integrationskurs bescheinigt werden.

 

Die zuständige Einbürgerungsbehörde trifft die Entscheidung, ob die Voraussetzungen für eine Fristverkürzung vorliegen. Bitte wenden Sie sich daher mit weiteren Fragen an die Einbürgerungsbehörde.

 

Weitere Informationen zum Thema Einbürgerung finden Sie auch auf der folgenden Internetseite.<https://www.integrationsbeauftragte.de/Webs/IB/DE/Service/FAQ/Einbuergerung/faq_node.html>

 

Ich hoffe ich konnte Ihnen weiterhelfen und wünsche Ihnen für die Zukunft alles Gute!"

 

However, at the end they seem to indicate that the individual Einbürgerungsbehörde has some leeway in deciding what does and does not qualify. So while they indicate that only the actual participation in at least 4 course units and receipt of the certificate certifying that fulfills the letter of the law ("Teilnahme am Integrationskurs"), maybe it is worth trying with the certificate based on the tests in case they either do have the leeway to accept the certificate based on the tests or don't understand this distinction between the certificates. 

 

This can't be guaranteed to work though, because a B1 German test + the orientation course test (as the integration course certificate without participation proves) only fulfill the minimal, normal requirements for citizenship after 8 years.

 

you are right. One can give it a try...either they accept or ask you to wait...however as you said it depends totally on the person dealing the case...also there is no fixed law regarding this...it varies from state to state, behörde to behörde etc. I heard that in Hamburg one could apply after 6 years with Integrationkurs Zertifikat...

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3 hours ago, syedalisajjad said:

 

you are right. One can give it a try...either they accept or ask you to wait...however as you said it depends totally on the person dealing the case...also there is no fixed law regarding this...it varies from state to state, behörde to behörde etc. I heard that in Hamburg one could apply after 6 years with Integrationkurs Zertifikat...

Are you sure that was just with the Integrationkurs Zertifikat or rather B2 German? Being able to apply after 6 years with B2 German is fairly standard (though more open to variation and different interpretations than the 7 years with integration course from what it sounds like, and sometimes a higher level and/or other things such as volunteer work are also required).

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3 hours ago, syedalisajjad said:

.also there is no fixed law regarding this...it varies from state to state, behörde to behörde etc. I heard that in Hamburg one could apply after 6 years with Integrationkurs Zertifikat...

 

*sigh* There is fixed law and it has been mentioned in this thread already:

 

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/rustag/BJNR005830913.html - see § 10 (3).

 

In English: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_rustag/englisch_rustag.html#p0054

 

"(3) Upon a foreigner confirming successful attendance of an integration course by presenting a certificate issued by the Federal Office for Migration and Refugees (BMAF), the qualifying period stipulated in subsection 1 shall be reduced to seven years. This qualifying period may be reduced to six years if the foreigner has made outstanding efforts at integration, especially if he or she can demonstrate a command of the German language which exceeds the requirements under subsection 1, first sentence, no. 6."

 

This is fixed, federal law. Whatever you have "heard" or not.

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13 minutes ago, someonesdaughter said:

 

*sigh* There is fixed law and it has been mentioned in this thread already:

 

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/rustag/BJNR005830913.html - see § 10 (3).

 

In English: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_rustag/englisch_rustag.html#p0054

 

"(3) Upon a foreigner confirming successful attendance of an integration course by presenting a certificate issued by the Federal Office for Migration and Refugees (BMAF), the qualifying period stipulated in subsection 1 shall be reduced to seven years. This qualifying period may be reduced to six years if the foreigner has made outstanding efforts at integration, especially if he or she can demonstrate a command of the German language which exceeds the requirements under subsection 1, first sentence, no. 6."

 

This is fixed, federal law. Whatever you have "heard" or not.

 

thanks but it seems that it still varies from behörde to behörde and the person dealing with the case...a friend of mine got naturalized after 7 years without any Integration course certificate..

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24 minutes ago, Zeitbuch said:

Are you sure that was just with the Integrationkurs Zertifikat or rather B2 German? Being able to apply after 6 years with B2 German is fairly standard (though more open to variation and different interpretations than the 7 years with integration course from what it sounds like, and sometimes a higher level and/or other things such as volunteer work are also required).

 

i am sure he didn't have a B2 certificate...maybe he got lucky...

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30 minutes ago, syedalisajjad said:

 

thanks but it seems that it still varies from behörde to behörde and the person dealing with the case...a friend of mine got naturalized after 7 years without any Integration course certificate..

 

Golden rule of migration.   Don't always take what a "friend" says at face value.   Or at least understand there is probably a different reason they have a got a benefit (other than the reason we assume).   Exactly as per the last point.  It won't be that certificate.

 

Migrant mate:  My friend got xx / is allowed too xxx, and he's not German / EU either.

Me: How do you know he's not German?

Migrant:  I've seen his US passport.

Me: Do you know he's not got a German one as well, that he's not a dual national. (Repeat for...pemanent residency...local spouse...historic claim to citizenship...various other).

Migrant: Erm...

Me:  I self-identify as British, but I'm German as well, remember?

Migrant: Erm...

 

Endlessly.  All. the. time.   We are all different.   Hitting on one specific trait and assuming we get the same because we have that one specific trait is understandably comforting, but really unreliable.

 

Still, contrary to other posts here with familiar moans about Germans strictly applying rules, it's good to know that anything goes with citizenship - rulebook out of the window :lol:

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There could be a few reasons naturalization after 7 years was possible, or seemed possible, without fulfilling the criteria with an integration course certificate-

- Did they have a degree from a German university? Or an Abitur? Or Ausbildung or any other German qualification? They may have met the criteria for applying after 6 years.

- Did they have a degree in German from a university outside of Germany? Or other proof of advanced German knowledge aside from the B2 test or higher? They may have met the criteria for 6 years.

- Did they do volunteer work? Or have exceptional achievements in their work? They may have met the criteria for applying after 6 years.

- Did they actually receive citizenship before living in Germany for 8 years, or just apply? It's frequently possible to apply ~6 months before you meet the residency requirement, and in areas where there are particularly long processing times maybe this would even be allowed a year in advance.

- Were they a refugee or stateless? It is possible to apply earlier in these cases.

- Were they married to a German? This enables applications after 3 years (or 2 years after being married).

 

So without knowing the answer to those questions I'd be hesitant to jump to the conclusion that there is that much discretion who can apply after 7 years specifically.

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2 hours ago, syedalisajjad said:

 

thanks but it seems that it still varies from behörde to behörde and the person dealing with the case...a friend of mine got naturalized after 7 years without any Integration course certificate..

 

I'm extremely sceptical about this'My friend told me','my neighbor's uncle says','I've heard that'-stories.

 

Mostly it's some nonsense people tell to look great or important details are concealed.

 

Civil servants who break federal law have to fear considerable consequences, including the loss of civil servant status and pension entitlement... They would have to be very stupid to break laws for people who are stupid enough to talk about it.

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Right.     And we are also usually best advised to manage our own interests and that of our family according to our reality, and also logic and law and what normally applies.   Not what a "friend" told us - I always see that as a very odd basis to run one's own life and family.   Especially when, as you say, it seems to involve government officials breaking laws, which although certainly possible - people have bad days or can be lazy or even actively corrupt - would be unlikely to happen often.

 

It is also the case that people do not even recount their own history fully or accurately.   I mean, I know that happens to me all the time in things I say here about process that I later realise are not the whole picture, and thus may mislead.  I come back and correct it where I can.   My citizenship process ran easily but it is also quite hard to recall with 100% accuracy everything that happened over the 14 months, and even more so why.    Like that above example.  I forget I am German, so I do not always refer to it as relevant, and so how are others expected to know :blink:?

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On 1/6/2013, 11:28:52, PandaMunich said:

 

Yes, don't worry, they only care about the fact that you passed the exam.

 

You can find out the "Regionalstelle" that is responsible for you here:

 


 

  • Give in your address.
  • Check the box to the left of "Zuständige Regionalstelle mit Regionalkoordinator"

 

Send your "Regionalstelle" an e-mail, with your scanned two certificates as an attachment, and they will send you your "Zertifikat Integrationskurs" by snail mail, see here.

 

It will contain the date it is issued by the BAMF (Bundesamt für Migration und Flüchtlinge), see here for another type of certificate that they issue, but like the.frollein, I don't understand why you think that date is important.

Hi Panda, 

Has the process changed since 2003? Do they ask you to sit in the classes now? Any thoughts :)

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7 hours ago, kapil354 said:

Hi Panda, 

Has the process changed since 2003? Do they ask you to sit in the classes now? Any thoughts :)

Not your area, but I did the exam a short time ago and there was no need to do the course, there were several others who had not done it either. Just call the local VHS (or wherever its being done) and ask if you can have an application form for the next exam and see.

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10 hours ago, SusieT said:

Not your area, but I did the exam a short time ago and there was no need to do the course, there were several others who had not done it either. Just call the local VHS (or wherever its being done) and ask if you can have an application form for the next exam and see.

Thaks Susie !

 

So basically, I should get 3 things, right?

+ B1 certificate

+ Orientation course test

Einbürgerungstest

 

Cheers! 
Kay

On 1/6/2013, 11:28:52, PandaMunich said:

 

Yes, don't worry, they only care about the fact that you passed the exam.

 

You can find out the "Regionalstelle" that is responsible for you here:

 


 

  • Give in your address.
  • Check the box to the left of "Zuständige Regionalstelle mit Regionalkoordinator"

 

Send your "Regionalstelle" an e-mail, with your scanned two certificates as an attachment, and they will send you your "Zertifikat Integrationskurs" by snail mail, see here.

 

It will contain the date it is issued by the BAMF (Bundesamt für Migration und Flüchtlinge), see here for another type of certificate that they issue, but like the.frollein, I don't understand why you think that date is important.

Hi Panda, 

Has the process changed since 2003? Do they ask you to sit in the classes now? Any thoughts :)

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16 minutes ago, kapil354 said:

Thaks Susie !

 

So basically, I should get 3 things, right?

+ B1 certificate

+ Orientation course test

Einbürgerungstest

 

Cheers! 
Kay

 

The einburgerungstest is the orientation course test, so you are quoting the same thing :) 

People who do not know German culture, history, structure, way of life do an orientation course to learn these things and at the end of the course they take the einburgerungstest to prove that they understand German society. 

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1 hour ago, kapil354 said:

Thaks Susie !

 

So basically, I should get 3 things, right?

+ B1 certificate

+ Orientation course test

Einbürgerungstest

 

Cheers! 
Kay

 

 

You should check with your local Amt. Google 'Einbürgerung' and your location and it should take you to the page of your Amt. A lot of times you need to have an appointment to check exactly what you need to provide in order to apply for Citizenship and this can vary a lot between locations.

 

In Cologne you only needed to do the Integration Course if you had been in Germany for less than 6 or maybe 7 years. When I rang the VHS to book the test they told me I needed to do the Course but when I mentioned that because I had been in Germany longer than 7 years I didn't, they just let me  take the test. If I hadn't have found this out then it would have meant taking a week off work to do the Course before I could do the test.

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On 5/8/2019, 9:19:02, warsteiner70 said:

 

You should check with your local Amt. Google 'Einbürgerung' and your location and it should take you to the page of your Amt. A lot of times you need to have an appointment to check exactly what you need to provide in order to apply for Citizenship and this can vary a lot between locations.

 

In Cologne you only needed to do the Integration Course if you had been in Germany for less than 6 or maybe 7 years. When I rang the VHS to book the test they told me I needed to do the Course but when I mentioned that because I had been in Germany longer than 7 years I didn't, they just let me  take the test. If I hadn't have found this out then it would have meant taking a week off work to do the Course before I could do the test.

What is the exact name of the test you are refering to... :)?

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On 6/15/2019, 2:42:06, kapil354 said:

What is the exact name of the test you are refering to... :)?

 

The Einbürgerungstest

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5 hours ago, warsteiner70 said:

 

The Einbürgerungstest

Great I registered myself for that. However, I was told that only 8 years option is available :( 

Not 7 yrs.

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