Post Nuptial to buy a house in Germany

51 posts in this topic

Hallo all,

I'm Indonesian married to a German since 2009 and have been living in Germany since that year. I just got my permanent resident permit few months ago. We're married in Indonesia and we (or better I!) were not well informed about law in Indonesia about married to foreigner (love is blind!). We didn't make a prenuptial agreement which means that we or even I'm alone not allowed to own/ buy property in Indonesia. My parents cannot buy me a house from their money because I'm not allowed to have it with my name because I'm married to a foreigner. And when they are passed away, the house which supposed to be mine then (I'm a single child of my parents) has to be sold - doesn't matter if I live in Indonesia or Germany. So short say, I lost my right in my own country even I'm still Indonesian citizen. At the moment this problem doesn't bother us much because we live in Germany anyway but sometimes it's just too bad to see how cheap property there and in fact we have money to buy it as investment but we can't do that just because no one told me about the important of prenuptial agreement in my country.

 

Anyway now, I don't work anymore in Germany,we have 1 year old sweet daughter and we plan to buy a house. We found the house already and working on the administration now. Because I don't have income anymore (I was self-employed) my husband will make the financial contract only with his name, so if something bad happened I don't need to continue financing because I don't have money anyway. His parents will pay the 50% price of the house as a 'gift' and my husband will pay the rest with credit from bank.

 

Now they; husband and his parents told me that husband and I have to make a contract, not only about the financial thing but it sounds like post nuptial agreement that if something is happened I will not receive any cent from this new house because 1. I don't help with the financial credit 2. I'm foreigner here in Germany.

 

Now I'm kinda sad, I know I can't help financing the house but my thought was, my husband buy the house for us three not for him alone. I don't have any intention to have part of his belonging, I won't demand anything if I'm for example, the one who ruin the marriage and leave him but how if in fact husband has that plan? To divorce me after this? That's why he needs to make post nuptial agreement? What is my right and my daughter's right on this? I tried to ask him about this and he said I don't need to be silly because the contract needs to be made just because he's married to an 'Ausländer'. It sounds incorrect to me.

 

I lost already my rights in my country because of this marriage and now I don't even know if I have any right here in with him. I even told him maybe we better divorce first, before he buy the house, then make pre nuptial agreement which cover about things in Indonesia and in Germany so we both will be happy and then re-married again. He found the idea is stupid. It is stupid but many have done that.

 

So anyone can give me some clues what to do? Is it true that married to an Ausländer is a problem in buying a house in Germany? Or at least someone can help me if I need to make some paragraphs for the contract before we meet the Notar? Or maybe I'm just paranoid? Many Thanks!

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, since his parents will pay 50%, it is half of what remains, i.e. half of whatever of the house has been paid off by him at the time of the divorce.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh-oh, sounds familiar. You are contributing by staying at home and looking after YOUR child.

 

Don't sign the papers. You need a roof over your head, both yourself and your child(ren later on?) if something should happen to your husband *touch wood*

 

Since he's buying the house, and if what he says is really true* - he cannot buy without you signing that paper - then DON'T sign. He doesn't get to buy a house, you don't lose anything. If he really want to buy the house, then he signs to your favour i.e. you & children are either entitled to the house if he dies BUT do make sure that you are not left with his debt. What I understood from my bank is, if I die and my family wants to inherit my apartment, they have to pay the outstanding mortgage so I told my mother never to claim my flat if I die unless I have already finished the financing.

 

Another thing, if your husband insist on you signing something and you cannot decline him, then he may add that you are not entitled to the house if you are the one who initiate a divorce - that might be what he is after? No house when he dies, no deal. Think about it: no house here (no job), no house back in Indonesia?!

 

*P.S. I am a foreigner and I own a property here in Germany so the part he said about you being a foreigner is definitely bullshit!

7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if you don't sign an agreement, the money your husbands parents are giving him in order to buy the house will still be his sole property. That is because according to German law, gifts and inheritance to one spouse during the marriage are considered private property and not a part of the common marital property. However, what he pays off during the time you are married would be and should be half yours. Even if you don't have an income, you are contributing by staying home and taking care of the child. Do not sign the papers, at least not without seeing a lawyer first. I am also not sure if such a contract would be deemed legal if your husband decided to divorce you because such a contract would be very unfair to you.

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A troubling post. Sounds to me like the parents whispering in the ear of your husband, securing the house and their money and family in case of a divorce and protecting their child and themselves, sensible from their point of view and they probably don't mean anything by it, but not too clever if it wrecks the marriage. Of course I could be wrong. "if something bad happens" - does that mean death or a divorce? Then their grandchild would have nothing, that alone would upset me, you would lose the house and they would take it and then you would be depedent on them. It depends how you live your life really. I would be concerned. I would not only not sign, I would question the whole marriage, which sounds like something from 1860 and also their attitudes to foreigners and their grandchild. Foreigners can't have a house? Not true and you have residency.

 

It doesn't sound like an equal partnership and they have made all the decisions as a family and you have no support or knowledge here. I would talk to your husband away from the parents and lay out your issues, you have already covered many of these. They want to protect themselves and want you to sign, you need to protect yourself too. I would tell my husband that I thought all about it and am not happy with this attitude, that I am going to a lawyer (and I would go look for a tough woman lawyer who knows her stuff and loves to protect the wives and mums) and that if this is not legal and aimed at the mother of his child then I am going to be seriously displeased and he is aiming the marriage at the rocks.

 

Summary of above - prepare to lawyer up with a good lawyer if you want to protect yourself properly, you will need that sort of backup to face down the whole family. Or accept it and hope for the best, knowing mums have a lot of support and rights here and they probably don't mean anything by it and your husband loves you and his child in his own way.

8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's one thing to want to protect yourself, but quite another to do it at the expense of your wife.

 

I can understand that in the case of you seperating or him dying, he and his parents don't want to lose the house that they purchased. But there are other ways to do this without wanting you to sign a contract to leave you with nothing at the end.

8

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let me rephrase.

Obviously you have no loving relationship with your in-laws. Here are my two cents:

A woman regardless whether she is married or not should some earn money on the side.

A friend of mine married a Spanish man, and her mother-in-law was so envious of her that she advised her son to hide money and

wealth away from her. She kept calling her a golddigger cause she did not work for a short period of time when she was married. And this

although her mother in law did the same thing in her younger years.

You should:

1. Generate some kind of a income

2. Never ever tell your in-laws how much you possess or what you really earn. They are hiding stuff away from you, so should you.

Also form an "emergency fund" for yourself and your daughter. Do not tell your husband about this.

3. Have some sort of a secret account for yourself and your daughter. Possibly in Indonesia?

4. Do consult a lawyer. But never ever tell your husband about it. Do not let your in-laws ruin your marriage.

5. Do not sign such a paper. It is your right to get alimony if you get divorced. Don't let anyone screw you over.

IF they are playing dirty, so should you. It is duty to protect your well being and the well being of your daughter.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I agree.

 

As far as I understood it, this is about the house, not about alimony.

Anyway, the only alimony in question is the one paid to the mother if she takes care of the child until that child's 3rd birthday - after that day the mum is supposed to put the child in a Kindergarten and work to support herself, and she will not get any alimony for herself, only the alimony for the child.

 

The other two kinds of alimony that she cannot sign away anyway, so she would always get them:

 



  • alimony during the separation period before the divorce is pronounced (= Trennungsunterhalt)
  • alimony for her daughter (= Kindesunterhalt) until the daughter is 18 years old, or until the age up to 26 when the daughter finally finishes her education

 

 

Not quite.

That lawyer says he won't charge extra for the first consultation as long as he gets a nice, juicy case (= Mandatserteilung) from her:

 

  • Eine Erstberatung ist bei uns kostenlos bei Mandatserteilung.

 

This is nothing special, in fact it is the law that they then do not charge for the initial consultation.

If she chooses not open a case after the consultation, that consultation will cost her up to 226.10€.

 

All of this is explained in detail in the TT divorce wiki.

 

I did not say that she won't get alimony when she signs the papers. I was trying to tell her that she will alimony

anyway. I think you misunderstood what I wrote. I was just telling her that she has the upper hand as a woman in Germany.

Ok so what do you have to offer her besides the Wiki info? I actually went out of my way to google a lawyer for her.

If you are going to make a smart ass comment at least post something helpful.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

tari,

 

concerning your lost rights in Indonesia, it could make sense to get an indonesien passport for your child, besides the german one. Double nationality should be no problem until your daughter is 18 years old. And it's well possible that german and indonesian law will change in the coming years so your daughter could keep both passports all her life.

 

If you have double nationality for her, I would try to find out if your parents can't make a will which would ,once they are both dead and gone, make your daughter become the heiress/owner of their house.

 

What is happening right now with your inlaws and your husband seems to be a problem which spouses from certain foreign countries are often confronted: Fear. They simply fear that the marriage could fail and they loose money due to the divorce rights . I know a dozen of such cases. And sadly, that fear is like a selffulfilling prophecy, your partner and you will from now on live together with more or less mistrust.

Having a job, own income, hidden cash etc -all sound well but in my experience isn't just easy to obtain, esp with a small child.

Good luck.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Children of German nationals can have dual nationality their whole lives- nothing to do with age for any children born in the last 10+ years. Just like my dual national kids.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

German law is one side of the story, indonesien law the other. And as far as I know Indonesia allows just only since about 5 years to have both nationalities until the child is 18.

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm afraid you're gravely mistaken, gail123.

 

 

The Indonesian nationality law does not recognize dual citizenship except for persons under the age of 18. After reaching 18 years of age individuals are forced to choose one citizenship.

(Source)

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Does he have a life insurance policy? My GerMan's is such that, should he die, it would pay off the house in full. Problem solved!

 

Personally speaking, I wouldn't sign any of this Ausländerin nonsense he is trying to sell you. He is either misinformed, or they are deceiving you.

 

See a lawyer on your own to get the facts straight.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

tari- the in-laws and your husband do not seem to be thinking of their child/grandchild as a blood relative, which is a big issue. Do not sign the paperwork, have a private conversation with him alone, as suggested above. This is really nasty.

 

My in-laws, with whom I did not see eye to eye on many issues, still wanted my children to be the inheritors of their house, so that if anything ever happened to my husband (whose job is periodically extremely dangerous) then we would be provided for.

 

In fact my brother-in-law threw his teddy and all changed, but it was inherently a kind plan. With his inheritance (they have since died) my husband bought a house in my name, for the same reason, and we have that security. My welfare and that of the children are his top priority, as mine is him and the children. There is a distinct lack of family feeling towards you and they are hiding it behind this auslander story, which is total rubbish. In order for you to trust him again he needs a big priority re-think of his life. Get a smaller flat without his parents?Trying to become totally 'at one' with in-laws is a very hit-and-miss affair, sosarx is probably absolutely right about the fear thing.

 

I don't find your divorce-make a prenup-and-remarry plan any more hideous than his plan to shaft you, rather less so.

7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now