Accused of torrenting copyrighted material

3,143 posts in this topic

 

While this thread contains tons of valuable info, it seems like there might be some conflicting viewpoints.

 

This is legal shit. It's not an exact science. Every case is individual and will depend on the downloaded material in question, the copyright holder, the lawyer who sent the letter and case decisions up to that point. Advice given in the earlier parts of this thread may also be superseded or even invalid. Adding the "German" factor (law, culture and language) complicates the matter tremendously for a dumb expatriate.

 

The best decision is to always ask a lawyers advice, but I guarantee if you ask 3 different lawyers you'll get 4 different answers and a big bill from each of them. Even asking which lawyer to contact will bring you a barrage of options, including one that says do-it-yourself. At least you get different answers on Toytown, a wealth of experience, possibly a few insults and you don't pay a penny for the privilege.

 

Does any of this help you? Probably not. But it goes some way to explain the conflicting viewpoints, and why they will never go away.

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Is anyone else able to verify the claim that Alice/O2 do not share their customers connection logs with copyright lawyers?

 

According to this site Alice is not keeping any logs, but O2 does for 7 days. Not sure which information is true, you should ask their customer service. But the site is useful anyway because you can compare the policies of different providers.

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I've read more less all this thread because I just received one of these "Abmahnung" by a lawyer called Rainer Munderloh.

I'm accused to have downloaded and shared an adult movie and I'm asked to pay 780€ within 5 days.

It was enough to put his name on google and I got tons of links to other lawyers offering assistance in the case (looks almost like a fraud in the fraud...).

 

I wanted to know if anybody else had the same letter, maybe from this guy, and how it ended up, at the moment, I contacted some lawyers who offered me assistance for a fee between 200 and 300€, plus, eventual sum I should pay.

 

Many thanks

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Angel 1

take a look at the following lawyer specialised in Internet cases. He handled both of my cases and he charges 250 Euros per case (so not per letter as others lawyers do) and will take care of it for the period of the suit.

 

Thomas Feil

Rechtsanwalt

 

Tel 0511/473906-01

Fax 0511/473906-09

 

e-Mail kanzlei@recht-freundlich.de

www.recht-freundlich.de

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This thread seems to have got a bit large now. I don't think I'd personally be able to read through 43 pages worth.

 

I was wondering, do we have a concensus yet on which VPN or anonymizers are worthless, which ISPs will sell you out (or won't), and what was being (or accused of being) downloaded, for example, was it games? software? films? music? TV?.

 

After several years downloading TV Shows via Telekom with no VPN/DNS/Anonymizer service, and now a few months with M-Net, I've had no problems.

 

I never download games/software/films/music though only US/UK TV, but I realise I could still be warned even for TV shows.

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Just get a VPN like Astrill and use them when you are downloading whatever with a P2P client. You are playing with fire if you upload anything torrenty.

 

If anyone wants an invite to astrill, just pm me an email address. I get a discount for people I refer. They are great for watching BBC Hulu etc, and for downloading torrents.

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Well, I hope I am safe downloading from filelockers + Hide My Ass.

 

Ok, it seems Hide My Ass will turn you in, but only for extreme reasons.

 

I guess Torrents in Germany are too risky... even with VPN.

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FigN, thanks for the contact.

But how does it work, does the case go to court or after the UE letter it all closes?

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So it may not be here in Germany, but there's a landmark case in the US which will define whether someone can be prosecuted after being only identified by an IP address.

 

Has this type of case been tried (sic) here? Especially considering the Germans' love of legal insurance.

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In the cases we're talking about here, there's no need to establish who shared the files because the owner of the connection is responsible if the connection is being used to distribute copyrighted material.

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Downloading, even from Youtube is not a problem. If the copyright holders have any problems with redistribution of their material over youtube they take direct action with youtube who usually pull it.

 

Hello, I'm new in Germany.

So downloading any video from youtube is ok? how about downloading from 4shared, mediafire, rapidshare, etc (not torrent)??

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How many times do we have to repeat this?

DOWNLOADING for personal use is not illegal, or at least not pursued as illegal, irrespective of where you download from. Uploading is illegal. The problem is that people often don't realise that they are uploading at the same time (e.g. using Torrent feeds) when think they are only downloading.

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[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

Hi,

 

A friend of mine has got an official letter from a munich based lawyer,

because she download a film via torrent.

 

The first question is:

Why has she got this letter from a munich based lawyer ?she was living in Berlin.

Do you know any lawyer,association (verbraucherschutz?) in berlin(or in germany) who can help her?

 

Actually she is no more in Germany but she would like to help her old flatmates...

 

Regards

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Hi,

 

A friend of mine got the letter on Saturday as well and I'm coming back from a lawyers office with him right now. According to him in most cases after sending the modified letter they don't come after you!!! If it is not music though which in his case is not. In fact it's an X rated movie!! Any way the lawyer was saying in this kind of movies more than 50% of people just hand in the money as soon as they get the letter since they are worried about what will happen to there reputation and ... so it's not worth it for the lawyers of the company to waste their time arguing with one who does not pay. Court is not a worthy option as well since they are small companies who don't have enough man power to go to so many courts. He had an experience of going to court just 3 times from more than a few hundred and 2 of the 3 came to him after they company had taken to court anyway. He said in all cases they reached a deal in the court before the court started!! But he was saying companies like Sony have big lawyers who do anything to get money from people.

Something interesting was that he was looking for where they got his name and address from and didn't find anything from the letter. He was saying that in some cases they don't go to court with the pin info looking for address and ... and they have illegal ways which they then are not able to use in court. Something like trying to get some easy money. He mentioned that normal price for these stuff is around 100 Euros according to the law but then the court those not even know how to rule so likes the two parties to reach a deal before the court.

 

Any way hope he is right.

 

BTW they he charged him 230 I think.

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[adminmerge][/adminmerge]

Hi,

 

A friend of mine has got an official letter from a munich based lawyer,

because she download a film via torrent.

 

The first question is:

Why has she got this letter from a munich based lawyer ?she was living in Berlin.

Do you know any lawyer,association (verbraucherschutz?) in berlin(or in germany) who can help her?

 

Actually she is no more in Germany but she would like to help her old flatmates...

 

Regards

 

A copyright holder can engage a lawyer wherever they want. It might even be the case that the copyright holder is in Munch themselves. As for the rest of your questions enjoy reading this thread where your post has been moved to.

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location of attorney is irrelevant...if the plaintiff company wants to use a legal firm in Hamburg, Bonn or wherever, that is their choice.

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i had recieved a letter from one of the lawyers for 650E and now the lawyer i hired has negotiated a price of 350E. Do u guys think this is a good price to settle at, if i should settle at all and simply play the odds?

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Most companies in Germany will tell you in their terms and conditions where they would take you to court... Look at "Gerichtsstand ist __________", usually the town near their location. Where you live is irrelevant. Next, read what it says in the letter, what you allegedly have downloaded... If you didn't download it, I wouldn't worry. If you did, they still have to prove that it was you. Using a VPN (Virtual Private Network) will make it significantly harder to tie you to any crime. HideMyAss is a great service, and they won't easily hand over any information unless law enforcement can prove that their network was used for illegal activities. I still use HMA, but if you want more info about how that works, check out this http://invisibler.com/lulzsec-and-hidemyass/ link, which explains a bit more about VPNs and logs. For the really paranoid ones, there are some pretty good non-logging VPN services available you might want to check out. I tested a couple of them, so if you need more info just drop me a line...

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Hello,

I was reading one of the links referred to earlier in this thread:

 

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20091204/0924437205.shtml

 

the article is explaining that some of these letters might be illegal in Germany, saying:

 

 

However, German law specifically states that these costs can't be based on the success of the claim. In other words: In order to invoice file sharers for lawyer fees, these fees have to occur and be paid by someone no matter whether a file sharer pays up or not. Invoicing someone for costs that haven't actually occurred could be seen as fraud.

Does this mean that if the lawyers sends out 10,000 letters saying pay 500 eur for copying a Sony record, then that lawyer must have already (?) been paid 5 million euros by Sony and now the lawyer is now just trying to get the 'end-criminal' to pay 500 eur which wll be reimbursed to Sony?

 

I intepret it in such a manner from this

 

 

In order to invoice file sharers for lawyer fees, these fees have to occur and be paid by someone

?

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