Accused of torrenting copyrighted material

3,143 posts in this topic

 

Do you happen to know what is normally the most sucessful option? Is it true that once I sent the modified UE that the total possible damages they could get was frozen at the offer amount? That is what I thought I had read...

 

Not quite. The legal fees are calculated based on the amount in dispute. For your standard file sharing Abmahnung, that's about 1050€. The settlement offer they make is usually a little less than that (400€-900€, depending on the law firm). If they do decide to sue, they'd be suing for the full amount, so 1050€ + damages (100€ or so) + collection fees, and you'd be on the hook for the legal and court costs. Overall, you'd probably be looking at 1500-2000€. That is if they do sue, you choose to defend yourself, don't settle during the trial and the verdict goes against you. Of course that's a pretty unlikely scenario.

 

 

Very strange to hear them taking a settlement and then coming back to get the rest..

I think you misread something. They don't sue after taking a settlement.

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Not quite. The legal fees are calculated based on the amount in dispute. For your standard file sharing Abmahnung, that's about 1050€. The settlement offer they make is usually a little less than that (400€-900€, depending on the law firm). If they do decide to sue, they'd be suing for the full amount, so 1050€ + damages (100€ or so) + collection fees, and you'd be on the hook for the legal and court costs. Overall, you'd probably be looking at 1500-2000€. That is if they do sue, you choose to defend yourself, don't settle during the trial and the verdict goes against you. Of course that's a pretty unlikely scenario.

 

Well the amounts I saw on the letters they sent (and I didn't take the time to type them all up to translate) were 1200eu and 5001eu. Not sure which would be the amount I could possibly be liable for?

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thats like trying to blame A brewery if you got caught drunk driving!

 

You've clearly completely misunderstood my point. I'm not saying that Telekom should be responsible, I'm actually saying the exact opposite. If someone else uploads something on my connection I think I should be able to claim innocence the same way Telekom does, and be able to pass the blame to the actual perpetrator (after they get a court order that forces me to give these details, just like Telekom).

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thats like trying to blame A brewery if you got caught drunk driving!

 

I'll be surprised if that hasn't already happened in America. Someone sued McDonalds because their hot coffee was hot. They've sued car companies because they did something stupid and the car didn't have a warning label to not do that stupid thing. OK, maybe they wouldn't sue a brewery, but certainly they'd consider sueing a bar or a liquor store.

 

No coincidence that 95% of the world's lawyers live in America, servicing 4% of the world's population.

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Just for information ...

 

2 and a half years ago I was caught downloading. I contacted a lawyer and paid Waldorf Frommer their 100 Euros along with a modified UE (Instead of the 850 Euros they were asking for) and I never heard from them again .... until now. My lawyer sent me an email saying that unless I pay them the full amount within a couple of days they will take me to court. They didn't even send me a letter and must have gone straight to my lawyer.

 

2 and a half years later ... WTF!!

 

My lawyer advised me not to pay but says that he can't predict the outcome of legal action. So I guess this time I'm going to put it down as scare tactics and wait and see.

 

 

 

I think you misread something. They don't sue after taking a settlement.

 

I was referring to that above post. Writing a letter of demand, accepting a modified payment, making no contact for 2.5 years, then going after the guy for the rest? Sounds like acceptance through conduct by the lawyers to me.

 

That shit be cray.

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I was referring to that above post. Writing a letter of demand, accepting a modified payment, making no contact for 2.5 years, then going after the guy for the rest? Sounds like acceptance through conduct by the lawyers to me.

It doesn't say that the law firm accepted a modified payment, only that a modified payment was made. If someone wants 850€ from and you pay 100€, you can't just assume that everything has been taken care of, even if you don't hear from the other party.

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I'll be surprised if that hasn't already happened in America. Someone sued McDonalds because their hot coffee was hot. They've sued car companies because they did something stupid and the car didn't have a warning label to not do that stupid thing.

 

I've read that email, and the interpretation of the Stella case is horribly simplistic and the rest are made up.

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Interestingly, I queried my letter about a Walking Dead episode - asking for proof that a German DVD distributor is the lawful copyright holder of a US TV show aired on a US network in English - and not shown on tv here (and certainly not released on DVD yet)... and their response was that they may or may not be able to prove that in court, but at the moment they do not offer that statement.

 

I think the Walking Dead episode letters are on very shakey ground to be honest. (unlike say a commercial CD or a DVD rip of a show)

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i recently got 2 separate letters from Waldorf Frommer for 2 films downloaded on the same night but from different production company. 956 each. got myself a lawyer for the first one, then the second came and he is doing it for free. no idea torrents was also classed as uploading, friend back home told me to use it. i am useless technically and this proves i should stay away from such things.

anyways we offered 300 for each case but lawyer says they won't accept, we are still waiting to hear back. i downloaded a few more so hoping i don't get letters for them too, everyday opening the letterbox is not a nice feeling and when no letter there a feeling of relief.

has anyone here ever received more than one letter? and has anyone settled and if so how much?

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Yes, using torrents == uploading. Unless you are absolutely sure that you are not uploading. Your client will in fact show the uploaded amount together with the downloaded. Also, if you do not upload, the torrent network will normally slow your own downloading speed to a halt. And even if no one actually downloads from you, you are still making the content available, that is nuf. These firms simply pick your IP from the list of seeders. Funny, but these law firms are not at all interested in anybody stoping the downloads, eh?

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You've clearly completely misunderstood my point. I'm not saying that Telekom should be responsible, I'm actually saying the exact opposite. If someone else uploads something on my connection I think I should be able to claim innocence the same way Telekom does, and be able to pass the blame to the actual perpetrator (after they get a court order that forces me to give these details, just like Telekom).

 

So you are saying that A rental car company should be held responsible for someone having a crash in one of their cars?

 

And credit card companies are responsible for fraudulent use of their cards?

 

I cant see you point at all.. Sorry

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no idea torrents was also classed as uploading

 

Thats the way torrents work - Every little bit of the program you download is offered as an upload to someone else to download and so it cascades, theoretically lessening the load on any one "seed" (provider of material), but also making you guilty of distributing if its copyright material. As P2P networks only work if people upload too, most torrent programs slow or stop your download if you switch off uploading.

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I remember reading somewhere in this thread that it was actually the seeding/uploading AFTER the download which matters. I know you simultaneously upload when you are downloading, but that doesn't seem to be a problem.

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Well add me to the list of Waldorf Frommer recepients!

 

Check my mail on Saturday and found the envelope. Brought the paperwork with me to school today to show a couple German classmates, since the language was above my level. After they really couldn't give me any concrete advice (one's wife is a lawyer), I hopped online and found this thread.

 

After spending the last couple of hours reading through 42 pages of posts, I think I have a pretty clear understanding of what I should so. So thanks to everyone who has contributed!!

 

Before I started reading the thread, I emailed WF (in English) just to inform them I received the letter, was not able to read it, and that I would not send back the UE until I consulted a lawyer. I only did this because my "Frist zum Eingang der UE endet am" is today. As a university student, the Studentenwerk offers free legal consultation, so I will go tomorrow and see what they can do for me.

 

I do have one question though - should the letter actually have the word Abmahnung somewhere??

It just says:

Universum Film GmbH

./.

My Name

- Illegales Tauschbörsenangebot über Ihren Internetanschluss-

 

..and I don't see the word Abmahnung anywhere in the document. But they definitely want me to pay the €956 like everyone has mentioned.

 

Thanks for the advice!

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I do have one question though - should the letter actually have the word Abmahnung somewhere??

A lot of them don't.

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Leeches seem to get desperate...

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-19354993

http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/netzpolitik/kanzlei-urmann-und-collegen-u-c-kuendigt-gegnerliste-an-a-851048.html

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